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Kartik Agaram

Please forgive me, I'm creating a new markup language.

bouncepaw 🍄

@akkartik this is novel, loving it. Please keep us informed

But you would need a better name...

Kartik Agaram

The Malleable Systems forum ("software as easy to change as it is to use") is doing a Jam with a twist.

Challenge Problem: Fearless Extensibility

forum.malleable.systems/t/chal

I have issues with this direction. Primarily: don't we already have this? Isn't Emacs fearlessly extensible? Firefox? Wordpress? Unity?

When you foster fearlessness, the world just piles on more moral hazard 😂

Still, should be fun! I'm getting ideas even as I type this. Thanks @jryans!

The Malleable Systems forum ("software as easy to change as it is to use") is doing a Jam with a twist.

Challenge Problem: Fearless Extensibility

forum.malleable.systems/t/chal

I have issues with this direction. Primarily: don't we already have this? Isn't Emacs fearlessly extensible? Firefox? Wordpress? Unity?

Show previous comments
Konrad Hinsen

@akkartik One criterion to take into account is the range of use cases covered by a system. The smaller it is, the less reasons there are for fear. Browser extensions can't ruin much outside of the browser, for example.

@jryans

Devine Lu Linvega

@akkartik @jryans Oh cool! I'm going to start thinking about this right away :mac:

Kartik Agaram

There's been a few recent ones, so here's a list of memorable new programming models that combine the usual prefix/infix/postfix/spreadsheet.

pauan.github.io/nulan/doc/tuto

hackerfoo.com/posts/popr-tutor

loglo.app by @avi

wiki.xxiivv.com/site/modal by @wryl

dziban.net/note/nova by @wryl

xorvoid.com/forsp.html

cognate-lang.github.io/learn.h

I'm missing an old one, a lisp-like where juxtaposition was function application. Please share if it sounds familiar.

There's been a few recent ones, so here's a list of memorable new programming models that combine the usual prefix/infix/postfix/spreadsheet.

pauan.github.io/nulan/doc/tuto

hackerfoo.com/posts/popr-tutor

loglo.app by @avi

wiki.xxiivv.com/site/modal by @wryl

Kartik Agaram

Trying to build software for others is extremely disheartening. I can be eating my own dogfood on a daily basis for years and still newcomers hit bugs in their first 10 minutes.

Kartik Agaram

I wonder if this is the major reason to huddle together on top of jenga stacks with tons of dependencies, terrified of fragmentation: You always need more testing than you think, and there's no way to compete with something that's been through that much testing.

Kartik Agaram

Of all the apps I've built, perhaps my favorite is git.sr.ht/~akkartik/snap.love, my box and line drawing tool. I use it _constantly_ -- including for work. I have a terrible short term memory, and now I make quick mindmaps for every little situation where a full-screen IDE on a huge monitor is too tiny to show all the parts of the codebase I care about right now.

I seldom mess with it, but today I modified it to show gridlines any time I drag things around. Should lead to neater maps!

Lona Theartlav

@akkartik AKA how to make scripts even more convoluted and unreadable.

Bill Mill

@akkartik @CoolSWEng is on mastodon too. Kartik, meet Diomidis, Domidis, Kartik

Kartik Agaram

Today's random destination after some surfing:

equi4.com/moam

blog posts until 2005 by the author of equi4.com/tclkit

which is used to build holonforth.com/holonu.html

an implementation of HolonForth, a Smalltalk-like Forth

found while searching for holon

after reading github.com/wecollective/wiki/b

Devine Lu Linvega

@akkartik wait, is weco from the same folks who did spacecollective all these years ago?

Kartik Agaram

I'm feeling attracted to a thought long held profane: perhaps I should "clean up" some old URLs on my site and stop serving them.

I guess it's just the next level of loss of faith in the www. What's the point of "cool URIs don't change" if nobody else cares?

(These are all just redirects, so there won't be any actual data loss. I'm not so far gone yet.)

Dym Sohin

@akkartik
does URL really exists if no one visits it?

Kartik Agaram

Text mode browsers for the doc (not app) web

On the frontpage of tilde.news today is a blog post from 12 years ago:

kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/01/

- retawq.sourceforge.net is 25k LoC. Last release 2006.

- netrik.sourceforge.net is 8K LOC. Last release 2009.

Both build fine and load my website. Neither supports https, but retawq might just need a few tweaks to TLS APIs.

Somewhere along the way we took a wrong turn w/software.

@shriramk mastodon.social/@shriramk/1105

@ubergeek tilde.news/s/xlrzqc/comparison

Text mode browsers for the doc (not app) web

On the frontpage of tilde.news today is a blog post from 12 years ago:

kmandla.wordpress.com/2011/01/

- retawq.sourceforge.net is 25k LoC. Last release 2006.

- netrik.sourceforge.net is 8K LOC. Last release 2009.

Kartik Agaram

“One problem was that a lot of new people had shown up: the users. There was no plan for how to incorporate their votes. Some of us thought the users should not have a vote. It was alleged to me that the users’ investment was in using the language. That was a new concept for me and I did not immediately resonate to it, although I have come to see this as a legitimate point of view.” —Kent Pitman (nhplace.com/kent/Papers/cl-unt)

But Pitman's salary didn't depend on not understanding this.

“One problem was that a lot of new people had shown up: the users. There was no plan for how to incorporate their votes. Some of us thought the users should not have a vote. It was alleged to me that the users’ investment was in using the language. That was a new concept for me and I did not immediately resonate to it, although I have come to see this as a legitimate point of view.” —Kent Pitman (nhplace.com/kent/Papers/cl-unt)

Kartik Agaram

Jeremy Bowers on Erlang mailboxes vs Go channels:

"It's really an intriguing study in how the solution to very similar problems can almost intertwine like an Asclepius staff, twisting around the same central pole while having basically no overlap."

news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3

Kartik Agaram

I've been thoroughly nerdsniped by @raph's paper from 1989.

dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/709 (via news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3)

Easy:

writelist empty; term
append-to-head 1 empty -> list; writelist list; term
append-to-tail empty 1 -> list; writelist list; term
append-to-tail empty 1 -> list; append-to-tail list 2 -> list; writelist list; term

Lost:

append-to-tail empty 1 -> list; append-to-tail list 2 -> list; append-to-tail list 3 -> list; writelist list; term

I've been thoroughly nerdsniped by @raph's paper from 1989.

dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/709 (via news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3)

Easy:

writelist empty; term
append-to-head 1 empty -> list; writelist list; term
append-to-tail empty 1 -> list; writelist list; term
append-to-tail empty 1 -> list; append-to-tail list 2 -> list; writelist list; term

Screenshot of my notes. So gibberish, many wrong.
Kartik Agaram

Implementing the Potluck system in LÖVE

inkandswitch.com/potluck

Research is awesome, but sometimes when you read a paper you just want to add it to your toolbox right now. In a way that fits in with your other tools.

Properties of my tools:

- minimal dependencies (no browser!)
- cross-platform; runs on Windows
- easy for anyone to modify (inkandswitch.com/end-user-prog)
- live; modify without restarting (youtube.com/watch?v=8Ab3ArE8W3)

Done so far: Potluck annotations

@emenel @khinsen LoveFrames alert

Implementing the Potluck system in LÖVE

inkandswitch.com/potluck

Research is awesome, but sometimes when you read a paper you just want to add it to your toolbox right now. In a way that fits in with your other tools.

Properties of my tools:

- minimal dependencies (no browser!)
- cross-platform; runs on Windows
- easy for anyone to modify (inkandswitch.com/end-user-prog)
- live; modify without restarting (youtube.com/watch?v=8Ab3ArE8W3)

Kartik Agaram

A minimalist DOM in 50 LoC

Is there a better name for this than "DOM"? A notation for a tree of rectangles, often containing text, to be rendered to screen and united with mouse events.

Rects contain either text or rows/cols of other rects. Other attributes: fg, bg, margin. Margin is margin-top or margin-left depending on whether the rect contains rows or cols.

No inline styling yet (bold, span, etc.), that feels like a separate concern.

@emenel @khinsen @akavel

A notation for a simple DOM

It's just a Lua literal, though the syntax highlighting is confusing.
First 2/3rds of code for rendering the DOM while saving coordinates of each rectangle.
Screenshot of DOM being rendered (uglily).
Kartik Agaram

As preparation for tomorrow's wheel reinvention jam (handmade.network/jam; github.com/HandmadeNetwork/wis), I just created a fork of lines.love with all the drawing support ripped out. Time to take it in a new direction.

codeberg.org/akkartik/text.lov

wakest ⁂

[The tools we use every day are broken. Software is slow, unreliable, and bloated with thoughtless features. It disrespects the user and forces settings that no one wants. And yet, people defend the status quo, claiming that what we have is fine, and that trying to change software is "reinventing the wheel".]

handmade.network/jam

via @akkartik

Kartik Agaram

Idea for a new tool

Drop a Mastodon or HN URL on a window, and it constructs a more dense 2D graphical layout for a thread.

* Separate card for each comment.
* Ideal readable width per card.
* Short arrows from comments to their replies.
* Keyboard shortcuts to pan along semantically to sibling or child.

Side-effects:
* It needs the network, obviously.
* Zero contact with file-system.

Inspirations:
* @ColinTheMathmo's Chartodon
* @s_ol's FediDag tool (example: dag.s-ol.nu/?document=https://

Idea for a new tool

Drop a Mastodon or HN URL on a window, and it constructs a more dense 2D graphical layout for a thread.

* Separate card for each comment.
* Ideal readable width per card.
* Short arrows from comments to their replies.
* Keyboard shortcuts to pan along semantically to sibling or child.

smallcircles (Humane Tech Now)

@akkartik @ColinTheMathmo @s_ol

It might have a side-panel where you see the flattened list of comments for a selected branch in the tree, and that branch visually highlighted.

s-ol

@akkartik @ColinTheMathmo
Curious to see how you're going to do layout, I have some ideas for the fedidag thing that I'm not managing to try out because in either direction I either need to build my own layout algo at near-graphviz quality and make it also incremental, or find way to retrofit incremental-ity using some sort or "chunk detection" to group and lock subgraphs.

Either one is daunting to me at the moment since I just don't know enough graph theory I think...

@akkartik @ColinTheMathmo
Curious to see how you're going to do layout, I have some ideas for the fedidag thing that I'm not managing to try out because in either direction I either need to build my own layout algo at near-graphviz quality and make it also incremental, or find way to retrofit incremental-ity using some sort or "chunk detection" to group and lock subgraphs.

Kartik Agaram

Current state of my note-taking app

Things of note:
* Operates on a hard-coded directory of text files.
* No overlapping, no tiling, just an infinite 2D surface of columns. Commands open new columns.
* Wordstar-style menu up top of important commands in current context, and their shortcuts.
* Command palette at top left that filters commands available in current context.
* Files/nodes can have links. Links can form graphs, as the picture shows (original: maplefish.com/todd/papers/Expe)

(cont'd)

Current state of my note-taking app

Things of note:
* Operates on a hard-coded directory of text files.
* No overlapping, no tiling, just an infinite 2D surface of columns. Commands open new columns.
* Wordstar-style menu up top of important commands in current context, and their shortcuts.
* Command palette at top left that filters commands available in current context.
* Files/nodes can have links. Links can form graphs, as the picture shows (original: maplefish.com/todd/papers/Expe

Show previous comments
Vertigo #$FF

@akkartik It reminds me of TiddlyWiki, except it's in two dimensions. I kind of like it, actually. Would you object to me borrowing and playing with the concept in a future editing environment I'd like to write someday? (Yeah, a very open-ended, long-term project that is poorly defined at the moment, but...)

chötrin.

@akkartik oooooo, this is *awesome*. Wouter van Oortmerssen put together something vaguely similar called TreeSheets that I've played with in the past.

strlen.com/treesheets/

Maybe some cross-pollination inspiration there! I wound up using vimwiki because it fits my brain better, but that's neither here nor there!

Kartik Agaram

I've been working on a note-taking program

To be precise, I've been migrating my existing 10+ year old note-taking workflows out of terminal and unix tools into a more integrated and hopefully more accessible environment.

Not released yet, but here's a demo (5 minutes, 13MB): archive.org/details/akkartik-p

(or youtu.be/u3WP0Lqbj00)

cc @vertigo @neauoire @zens

Devine Lu Linvega

@akkartik @vertigo @zens I won't be able to load this for some time, but I'll check it when we head back closer to the coast :)

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