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All posts CatSalad🐈🥗 (D.Burch) :blobcatrainbow:'s posts Post Back to profile
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BentiGorlich

@Arsimael
@catsalad
No PWA is just not true and I don't know what you mean by 'became a cheap chrome copy' when literally every other browser (excluding safari) literally **is** chrome

18 Nov 2023 at 9:48 | Wall-to-wall | Open on wehavecookies.social
11 comments
Arsimael Inshan

@BentiGorlich @catsalad last time I checked, FF wasn't able to do PWA. And I'm talking about native. Not with some third party stuff.
And no everything else isn't "chrome" it's webkit/blink based. Chrome is also just one product which comes from chromium. Like dozens others.
Don't get me wrong. Google is cancer and Googles influence on Chromium is cancer. But Chrome is not the root of everything.

Oh, and BTW, Safari is also using Webkit.

Currently, "use Mozilla instead of chrome" is nothing more than "Use horseshit instead of bullshit".
And why is Mozilla a cheap copy of chrome? Because Chrome gets a new feature, and Mozilla copies it. Starting with their versioning madness, continuing with their backdoors.

@BentiGorlich @catsalad last time I checked, FF wasn't able to do PWA. And I'm talking about native. Not with some third party stuff.
And no everything else isn't "chrome" it's webkit/blink based. Chrome is also just one product which comes from chromium. Like dozens others.
Don't get me wrong. Google is cancer and Googles influence on Chromium is cancer. But Chrome is not the root of everything.

18 Nov 2023 at 11:15 | Open on social.khajiit.de
BentiGorlich

@Arsimael
@catsalad

What do you mean by 'Safari is also using webkit'? Neigher Chrome nor FF use webkit afaik...

And while I agree that mozilla should focus more on the core and not on featuees nobody asked for, I much rather use a browser that is really open source and of which a bunch of more privacy focused forks exist, than the dominant player which tries so hard to make FF usable on their sites...

I use FF privately and for work and I am very happy with it

Attached: screenshot with PWA

@Arsimael
@catsalad

What do you mean by 'Safari is also using webkit'? Neigher Chrome nor FF use webkit afaik...

And while I agree that mozilla should focus more on the core and not on featuees nobody asked for, I much rather use a browser that is really open source and of which a bunch of more privacy focused forks exist, than the dominant player which tries so hard to make FF usable on their sites...
19 Nov 2023 at 11:40 | Open on wehavecookies.social
Arsimael Inshan

@BentiGorlich @catsalad
My comment was because it was mentioned that safari is different from Chrome. Chromium is using Bink as engine. And blink is a fork of webkit. Blink has some optimizations and uses some other techniques, but there's no real difference between webkit and blink if it comes to website rendering.

And what do you mean by "true open source"? AFAIK chromium is open source.
github.com/chromium/chromium

Chromium is no more or less 'open' than Firefox.

The problem is not the open source, it's the overwhelming power a few companies have in the project. Chromium is not bad. Google and it's privacy iussues and datamining 'code is.

Mozilla is making bad decisions. If Mozilla were a good and working piece of software, it wouldn't have fallen to 3% marketshare.
And the problem isn't Googles "Overwhelming advertising and shady tricks to install Chrome" - Microsoft forced their Browser on every instal of Window, keeps people from deleting it, and still has a market share which is around 5.5%.
Mozilla beat the IE back then because it had a good Product.
Bit sadly, that Product was overthrown by a better, in this case, faster product.
I see you are also capable to read German. So here's something to read: github.com/chromium/chromium

Tanks for the hint with the PWAs.But I am still talking about a native support. Not via some addons. FF isn'T capable of installing and using PWAs without installing some sort of Extension or addon. At least not in the current 119.0 Version.

@BentiGorlich @catsalad
My comment was because it was mentioned that safari is different from Chrome. Chromium is using Bink as engine. And blink is a fork of webkit. Blink has some optimizations and uses some other techniques, but there's no real difference between webkit and blink if it comes to website rendering.

19 Nov 2023 at 14:13 | Open on social.khajiit.de
Arsimael Inshan

@BentiGorlich @catsalad
And just to mention it: I don't try to 'convince' anyone that Chrome is good. (It isn't) - I just can'T stand the constant "Chromium is evil and Firefox is good" Mindset.

Firefox is the fucking same as Chrome. Mozilla ALSO collects userdata, is ALSO tracking its users and is ALSO putting backdoos for "management purposes" into their Browser. They are simply not as good as Google in hiding it, make more fuckups and are loosing more and more users over it.

That makes them not 'underdogs' in the Browser market. That also doesn't make them 'trustworthy'.
That makes them a bunch of people which try to provide a good browser and fail because of stupid decissions from their management.

That could be made better to improve Firefox?
1. Disable Normandy as default
2. Remove Trackers from the browser
3. Provide an own sync server for browser profiles, with a working documentation, and a setup which doesn't require several compuzter science degrees to run.
There are raspis. Make it as easy as it is to run pihole.

@BentiGorlich @catsalad
And just to mention it: I don't try to 'convince' anyone that Chrome is good. (It isn't) - I just can'T stand the constant "Chromium is evil and Firefox is good" Mindset.

Firefox is the fucking same as Chrome. Mozilla ALSO collects userdata, is ALSO tracking its users and is ALSO putting backdoos for "management purposes" into their Browser. They are simply not as good as Google in hiding it, make more fuckups and are loosing more and more users over it.

19 Nov 2023 at 14:25 | Open on social.khajiit.de
BentiGorlich

@Arsimael
@catsalad
Yes Mozilla does track you as well, but they do not have the same incentive to do so, simply because they are not running a corporation and are not alsp an ad company.

The problem I have with the things you say is that Mozilla is as bad as google and that is not true. They are not a de facto monopoly in Search, Ad and mobile OS market. And they are a foundation, not a corporation which just makes an immense difference.

19 Nov 2023 at 15:06 | Open on wehavecookies.social
BentiGorlich

@Arsimael
And the thing is that diversity in the browser engines is really important and we lost it. Google is in a position to dictate what can be done and what can't because rveryone uses their open source but not opem to contribution rendering engine V8

19 Nov 2023 at 15:07 | Open on wehavecookies.social
BentiGorlich

@Arsimael
The PWA thing does not require any 3rd party addon... Its just natively there. The install button is to install thr PWA...

19 Nov 2023 at 15:09 | Open on wehavecookies.social
Arsimael Inshan replied to BentiGorlich

@BentiGorlich im running FF 119 on arch. Vanilla, no addons.
And no PWA.

If I search for "Firefox use PWA", all I get is 'Install this extension" or "compile that add on".
Sorry, It's simply not working.

If it comes to open source but not open to contribution: How is FF different? You can't contribute there too.
And FF is less evil because there's not a Corp behind it? Sorry, but that's Bullshit.

If it steals my data and keeps an open backdoor to my system I don't care if it's a Megacorp or a small Foundation. Backdoor is backdoor.
That's non negotiable.

@BentiGorlich im running FF 119 on arch. Vanilla, no addons.
And no PWA.

If I search for "Firefox use PWA", all I get is 'Install this extension" or "compile that add on".
Sorry, It's simply not working.

If it comes to open source but not open to contribution: How is FF different? You can't contribute there too.
And FF is less evil because there's not a Corp behind it? Sorry, but that's Bullshit.

19 Nov 2023 at 15:18 | Open on social.khajiit.de
BentiGorlich replied to Arsimael

@Arsimael
Ok, then I missunderstood you. On desktop I have no clue. My screenshot was taken on Android and there I don't have to install anything else to have working PWAs...

Lets just part ways here and agree to disagree. I won't change my mind about chrome beeing far more evil and you won't change your mind about FF beeing just as evil.
For me the corporation part makes all the difference. And even if Mozilla does shady stuff too, it will always be less evil to me because its a foundation.

19 Nov 2023 at 15:23 | Open on wehavecookies.social
Arsimael Inshan replied to BentiGorlich

@BentiGorlich Chrome IS more evil than FF. That's out of question. I wrote it earlier somewhere.

Let me give you a different metaphor:

If you get mugged by the Mafia, or by an unorganized small group of muggers doesn't make a difference. You are still getting mugged. It's the same crime.

The difference in size makes no difference in the crime itself.

I just refuse to say 'I prefer the small group of muggers because they just try to feed their kids'.

Both deserve to be hit by law and thrown to jail.

The difference is, the Mafia needs to be hit by international law enforcement, thile the small muggers can be overthrown by a group of citizens and held until police arrives.

Yes, Google is more evil than Mozilla.

But they both are committing the same crime.

@BentiGorlich Chrome IS more evil than FF. That's out of question. I wrote it earlier somewhere.

Let me give you a different metaphor:

If you get mugged by the Mafia, or by an unorganized small group of muggers doesn't make a difference. You are still getting mugged. It's the same crime.

The difference in size makes no difference in the crime itself.

19 Nov 2023 at 16:54 | Open on social.khajiit.de
ZeStig replied to Arsimael

@Arsimael which browser would you recommend using?

31 January at 8:21 | Open on fedia.social
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