Gregory's ServerMastodon users: everything should be federated!
Also Mastodon users: no not you
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63 comments
  @maxleibman @shantini I respectfully disagree. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance @msbellows Neither I nor the OP said anything about tolerating bad actors or bad behavior. I like what she said because it calls attention to Fediverse partisans’ obliviousness to the tradeoffs in the designs of this place—like how people talk about defederation like it's a clean, simple, pure solution, as though it has no negative consequences. (EDIT: The first version of this reply started out unnecessarily aggressive, so I took it out, and I apologize. The rest I stand by.) @msbellows I don't know the OP's intent, but I hear it not just in the context of blocking Threads (fine, whatever, do or don’t; I don't like Meta, either). Rather, what I see reflected there is the complete asshattery of people who've said, “We need to block any instance that doesn't block Threads!” (or even further). Which is a burn-the-village-to-save-the-village sentiment if I've ever seen one. @maxleibman That last part's fair enough; my point is that openness need not extend to fully opening the gates to people who merely pretend to embrace openness as a ploy to destroy it (which is what I believe Meta intends to do). But you and I? We're good! Thanks for being thoughtful!  @msbellows @maxleibman @Raccoon @msbellows @maxleibman  @retrohondajunki @msbellows @maxleibman  @Raccoon A good litmus test for this is if you would suspend a small instance where right-wing hate groups PragerU, Libs of TikTok, and Moms4Liberty are welcome. WelshPixie failed that test when she effectively said (paraphrasing), “We protect dot art users from harmful servers, except the large ones because reaching customers is more important.”  @maxleibman @msbellows Hardly any people have actually said that, though. The anecdote just seems to be being used as a stick to beat people who advocate for blocking a party known to be harmful, and to derail discussion around that. @msbellows @maxleibman @shantini wow. I have been curious about this but haven’t been able to put it into words until reading this. Thanks! @msbellows @maxleibman @shantini I think the main argument against Threads is “embrace, extend, extinguish”? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish  Pretty much. Giving it another day or so before I move instances because the random one I chose is being opaque. What a pain. As I told the instance admin, @gruber was right: https://daringfireball.net/linked/2023/06/19/not-that-kind-of-open I can very confidently say that if you're replying to a post of mine and you think what you've said is "clever" or that you've "owned" me, I can assure you that is not the case  @shantini  @shantini 😂😂 I love this post Shantini, and also completely agree with the behaviour in question @shantini @marcoarment I don’t care what happens, as look as I don’t have to make a Meta account of any kind. Also if people would post where i can view those post from mastodon that would be great. The technical details don’t matter I don't know why it's unreasonable to not want to be a victim of corporate capture. If I wanted to use threads, I'd be using threads right now. I'm here because I'm avoiding Facebook and the rest of the corporate internet @PopOfAfrica @shantini I agree with you because that's a very real possibility. Mastodon is TINY compared to Threads because of the sillybuggers they played with Instagram accounts.   That kind of absolutism isn't hypocrisy. It's prudence, discretion, and the exercise of good judgment. Example, I believe in freedom, but not freedom for mass shooters. Example, I believe in institutions, but not in ones that shield predators or fraudsters or tax evaders. It's not hypocrisy to reject federation for Threads You are allowed to make decisions with context, taking into account past conduct, & current goals. Meta is part of an anti-democracy movement.  @Npars01 @shantini I'm willing to change my desires when a fascist billionaire wants to make money off me and celebrates his power to make the world topsy-turvy for his gain. @shantini You've got a zillion responses, so I expect you won't read this one (and that's fair!), but for the sake of saying it: What I have read so far is that Masto users will essentially be able to peer over the fence in to Threads at selected "famous people" accounts, but if we wanted to interact with them, we'd have to join Threads. This is not what "interoperability" means, as far as I can tell. That's my issue. IMO. FWIW. YMMV. BBQ. @OrionKidder that is temporary. They're testing the waters and Mosseri said this is gonna take a few months until it's fully federated without needing threads accounts. @bluefirex I hope that's true. I don't believe a word anyone from "Meta" says. Even then, they're huge, and we're small, and they could eat us just by presenting something distantly easier to sigh up for. So I'm not filled with hope. That said, I don't know what anyone could do about it! Activity Pub just is open, so anyone can connect to it. I think we all need to organize *collectively* to make sure we're not colonized, and I'm using that word in its technical sense. @OrionKidder I do believe Mosseri regarding this, however his recent gotcha was that federation will probably opt-in. Given the large number of users simply unaware of Mastodon's existence and hence federation in general, that'll mean a lot of content just missing here. @bluefirex Believing or not believing is an individual judgement call, so let's hope you're right. I get what you mean about access to content, but I also have been Canadian all my life, and when American "content" floods across our border, it drowns out our content. Canadian movie theatres show American movies. Canadian tv channels air American shows. The exception are government funded and/or legally mandated. @bluefirex Remember when the twitter users flooded mastodon and expected it to be like Twitter? If they'd outnumbered Mastodon users, which Threads users do by a factor of five or ten I think, they'd have changed this place, not the other way around. These are my concerns. I hope I'm wrong. Because there's nothing to be done about it but resist. @OrionKidder I don't think the platform will change. It will probably stay a kind of needy bubble for quite a while while the celebs are on Threads. Just like different internet forums can co-exist with one another. @bluefirex What I see on here includes reposts, and there will be much more Threads content to repost than anything else. I can turn off reposts, but then I diminish my Mastodon experience, plus that's a per-follow opt-in, a big barrier to use. As the space absorbs more and more of Threads' content, it becomes Threads in style and culture, and we have been, in effect, colonized. I mean no disrespect to colonized peoples when I say that. It's the closest historical analogue I can think of. @OrionKidder What content you see entirely depends on who you follow here, though. Only Threads itself has the algorithmic timeline. If you don't follow American or whatever people, you won't see that kind of content. I do follow Americans here and see a large percentage of American content because of that (even though I'm German), but that's because I chose it through following those people @shantini @marcoarment It's sad to see as I thought Mastodon was supposed to be very open and rooting for Open Social Standards... the hypocrisy is real @zav_ @shantini @marcoarment … can you change your Server from Threads to a Mastodon Server and take your followers with you, Xav? @kameit00 @shantini @marcoarment @zav_ @shantini @marcoarment can you now? Or do you have to trust them to implement it? 😉  @shantini @marcoarment (without knowing context, but sometimes it‘s like that) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance |
@shantini @marcoarment That’s kind of the point, yes?