@mcc Yes. I've found this. You get more nuanced, useful, interesting bug reports and genuine desire to help you sort obscure problems out - almost always without the PRESUMPTION that you can or will.

It's part of why I intend to release all my future games on Linux, ideally on as broad a set of hardware as possible.

@mcc devil's advocate: adding a Linux version not only incurs the cost of developing and supporting a new platform, but also a massive amount of QA and dev time processing low-severity bug reports for issues that probably don't affect the average user's experience enough for them to care *and* all you get is about a 5% bump in sales. So it's almost certainly not worth it.*

* Or at the very least, only worth supporting SteamDeck hardware.

@mcc @skry And that’s the difference between glossing over data and actually deciphering what it means. How often do companies never get past the first part?

@mcc This tracks for me. I assume most open-source stuff is run by accessible people who care about the software, otherwise why the heck would they bother with any of this? But most corporate bug reports are shouting into the void.

One exception is when I filed a Radar ticket for some wacky behavior in, I think, an Apple AirPort WiFi base station. And I *got a call* from someone at Apple, who gave me a special diagnostic tool to collect more data. Never had anything like that happen before.

@mcc can support. I used a music player for a while that had a linux port. Desipte their being like a few dozen Linux users, we filed over half of all bug reports, and most of those were UX/server issues.

@mcc automatic +1 for coining the term “nerdsnipe”! 👏🏼

@mcc Ah yes... the age old story from the PA:T devs... 😹

@mcc yup. That’s been my experience. They’re also more likely to suggest a fix, as well. I’ve had three or four serious bug reports come with a probable solution and logs.

@mcc It's always been my experience that most open source/Linux software devs tend to care more about bug reports than most corporations do. Like you'll submit a bug report and it might actually get fixed.

...Unlike most corporate software, where you'll submit a bug report, and it NEVER gets fixed, even if a lot of people are having the same problem. The only time they might actually care about bug reports is if it prevents you from properly using/opening the software at all...

@mcc "Open source is weaponized Cunningha'sm law." -me

@mcc
i'll bet that holds, in general, for people on fediverse stuff. Its not so much nerd and people who care and want to help others.

@mcc Except I'm tired of doing free QA (looking at you, Microsoft `usbipd` 😉

@mcc I feel seen!

@mcc it really depends on the effort required to port to Linux. If your game is written for DX12 and you need to write a whole Vulkan renderer for the Linux port then perhaps not.

@mcc @lisamelton
My dev colleagues file more bugs than my designer colleagues, due to the nature of their work. Wonder if peeling one more layer would show that Linux users file more bugs because there are more devs using Linux, which would then rewrite the maxim to “port to Linux to get free qa dev work”.

@mcc guilty, lol, definitely submitted my share, generally with a patch and debug info. Also i found long ago when reporting bugs in games to often lie about os (gen by omission) as most devs wouldnt take it seriously otherwise, even with it being a known complained about issue with actual windows users and absolute proof. Windows players in general are so used to bugs with no path to get them fixed they complain, but never report!

@mcc I guess when you've filed 26 bugs against device drivers just last week, filing 3 bugs against a game is how you kick back and unwind.

@mcc

@mcc What an interesting outcome! I remember hearing the computer game Planetary Annihilation have a problem with bug reports being mostly in regards to their Linux port. I guess if this result can be shown to be true for lots of software, then it will be a good problem to have!

@mcc it's definitely a culture aspect.

@mcc This is similar to the effect that makes Swiss trains so good.

@mcc

I can confirm in #inkscape we get most bug reports from linux users.

But.

Part of the job of the project has to be education. How to use the tool, how to understand free software and yes, how to report bugs.

Which is just a subsection of the broader "you are invited to be a contributor, no small task is too small" and extend that to our windows and mac users.

@mcc
I was interested until I noticed that this is the guy behind ∆v Rings of Saturn. Now I'm on fire because he is awesome.
@vaurora

@mcc

I don't like the "nersnipes people into giving you free QA"
QA people should be paid.
If it's FOSS then that's fine. But this sounds like corporate that CAN pay people but don't so you pay $60 to be a beta tester.

@mcc I've seen a similar situation where the game studio just dropped support for Linux because it wasn't worth the effort. I'm not sure if in that case the reports were indeed Linux specific or if they just failed to see the bigger picture like in your case.

@mcc more likely to *report* bugs

@mcc original source: https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/qeqn3b/despite_having_just_58_sales_over_38_of_bug/

@mcc there’s visceral joy in helping a developer debug an issue; the more I want it fixed, the more helpful I become.

@mcc Time to release game on linux first ? Nice 😁

@mcc I do think that every self-described "data-driven" entity needs this as mandatory reading. The numbers don't tell you everything.

@mcc Crazy. :kirby:

@mcc Also, I found the detail about the different quality of the bug reports quite interesting, that the reports from Linux users more often contained possibly relevant info like software versions, crash dumps, logs, steps to reproduce the bug etc. instead of "after some hours of playing, the game crashes"

@mcc This was also my experience when I was maintaining linux support for unity

@mcc I have seen it used also the other way around - "Tiny minority with little/no impact on revenue but causing disproportionate amount of support noise/complaints, so we can't economically justify maintaining Linux support for our sw ..." 🤷

@mcc As a Linux user I cannot relate "none of the bugs were Linux-related".

@mcc It also says something about Linux that many Linux advocates would deny: Linux requires a more expert user than other OSes.

Of course, having a higher bar for entry is the opposite of inclusiveness.

That is something Linux developers should take seriously.

@mcc

That is #QuiteInteresting; is there any #Data on the #Quality of those #BugReports; i.e. what #Proportion of those #Reports were #JustGarbage...? Or, is the #Statement below merely #Experiential... #Otherwise, we're not #Comparing #LikeWithLike for a #MeaningfulInterpretation.

🧙⚔️🤖🐺🤖⚔️🧙 | ☕🎠🦹🦄🦹🎠☕

@mcc Too bad gamedev twitter's actual takeaway was "Linux ports are a waste of effort" and circlejerk ensued.

@mcc Great post. I have long believed that most software problems go unreported. I am not surprised that Linux users might have the determination and grit to buck that trend.

@mcc
I always thought this was the case cause no windows user would take the time to figure out how to submit a bug report to a dev. Its also a stupid complaint cause any other developer would be happy to have someone submit a bug report rather than vaguely complain about an issue on Reddit or Twitter. But game devs don't want to fix their games I guess

@mcc
Looking at you, Valve. #cs2

@mcc Take this example from Return to Monkey Island: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/issues/7360

@mcc (OpenBSD knocks)

@mcc IIRC, the same was long time ago conclusion by #Mozilla with bugs for #Firefox. Which is the reason why they happily build #Linux binaries and do a lot to support Linux users even though they are tiny minority of their users. But they do file bugs and more often than others even reasonable and actionable bug reports.

@mcc we CANNOT let anyone in management hear the phrase "free QA"

@mcc I've seen several cases where game developers have dropped Linux support because they completely misunderstood this concept.

@mcc original article: https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/qeqn3b/despite_having_just_58_sales_over_38_of_bug/

@mcc while this is nice to hear, and not unexpected, i must object to calling this "nerdsniping" as if linux users were somehow bamboozled into doing free work here.

the linux community operates under an unwritten cooperative social contract: users co-own the software & in return go the extra mile to improve it. even when the game provided is closed and for-sale, users still hold up their end of the deal; mostly out of habit, but it also renders the developer indebted to the community.

@mcc isn't that because a lot of Linux users work in IT and are themselves developers?
I'm a dev myself and I frequently report bugs I encounter in any software I use.

@mcc@mastodon.social That's a really good example of the FOSS spirit, even if the game itself isn't Free Software.