@davidzipper Yes they should be liable. I don't really like the idea of self-driving cars anyway. Seems very very unsafe.

@davidzipper

>None of us signed on to be a guinea pig.

Technically, considering the (intentional) lack of consumer protection in the US as well as the practically nonexistent push back regarding this issue, you kinda have.

@davidzipper
Also this: "all advanced driver assistance systems require the human driver to be in control and fully engaged in the driving task at all times"
I thought we'd already established that people are notoriously bad at supervising computers? Our attention drifts of to other things too easily. If you don't have to steer the car, then you're going to end up not paying attention.

@davidzipper Anyone who relies on technology to drive their car and not be aware of how the car is being driven is a fool. The manual says the driver should always be ready to assume control of the vehicle if circumstances require it. The driver, like a captain, is alway responsible for his vehicle. Whether driven by autopilot or by human accidents happen and we all take risks the moment we step out of the door into the world.

@davidzipper

Same for these god dammed robot cars!

Further, the executives at these companies need to be personally liable.

@davidzipper Is Chevy liable when a Silverado runs over school children because the hood is so high they can’t be seen?

I think so. This issue is not unique to Tesla. Auto manufacturers are intentionally building vehicles that are proven to be unsafe to pedestrians and bicyclists. They should all be liable.

@davidzipper

Of course they should be. The tesla vehicle was the one driving, right?

@davidzipper The fact they're debating this is hilarious. And the obvious answer is no, of course Tesla won't be held liable, just like Elon wouldn't be held liable if one of his workers died on company property.

@davidzipper Amen to that. I'm getting sick and tired of these tech comapanies using people in general to test their new gadgets. We are the test subjects and then they turn around and sell you a non-freedom-respecting product ... that you dont even own. They wont let you repair it and they can turn features on and off at will.

@davidzipper

I don't see why not.

Conventional car manufacturers are held liable for defective cars.

@davidzipper I think it really is going to end up being along the lines of if the brakes stop working on a car, who's fault is it?

I mean, the "don't drive autopilot like it's autopilot" isn't going to get a jury to think you really expect people to not use it as autopilot.

And I've been on a civil jury; trust me, in that experience, several of us didn't give a crap about the gigantic insurance company's actual case. My guess is that half the people will lean towards convicting the guy that can pay.

@davidzipper I haven't read the piece but your take on the issue is much closer to mine than whatever the juries may decide on the other one.

@davidzipper

That's the entire philosophy of the wealthy. Taking on risks and down stream impacts that effect everyone but themselves.

The risks of climate change are borne by the poor.

Musk & Murdoch fly elsewhere on private jets in wildfires or a pandemic.

The risks of corrupt energy companies like soil contamination, greenhouse gases, extreme heat events, or flooding are borne by the working & middle class.

Ted Cruz flies to Cancun when a poorly maintained Texas grid crashes in winter

@davidzipper maybe tesla will build a bunch of hyperloops for its customers to get around the issue of having to encounter the miserable non-Tesla owning masses

@davidzipper that's how i feel about all automated driving. I still can't believe the glaring regulatory failure that is enabling tech bros to put this stuff on public roads

@davidzipper if Tesla can be sued for the drivers death, then undoubtedly they can be sued for an innocent third-party’s death. The duty of care to an innocent third-party is always going to be greater than that to the driver.