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Top-level
@tess 100% agreement about git not being the right thing to hand to people who are new to source control. When I was a TA, the professor wanted students to turn in assignments with a "real" tool. I opted for SVN over git. Students still did silly things when committing to the course repository, but I wasn't about to tell them to pick up a tool whose handles consisted almost entirely of sharp edges. The course was "make Roombas play soccer," not "how to lose your source code like the pros." 12 comments
@aytvill @tess (a) was definitely true... the prof's intention was for students to collaborate over svn, but I'm pretty sure most teams just hacked locally and committed to an assignment's tag when it was time to turn in. I'm not sure I understand your points (b) and (c). Were they complaining that the uni setting simplifies the collaboration problems you get in industry [so SCm as taught at school isn't helpful], and big FLOSS projects require use of git [so learning other tools doesn't help]? b) if your team has luxury of personal meetings, typically enforced by mgmt, then async dev mode turns into sync slot mode - you go away from bazaar to cathedral c) large FLOSS is bazaar at roots and that's what makes cathedral folks to abhor at dealing with what they perceive as chaos ;)  @trurl @tess I've been using lesser source controls (rcs, cvs, pvcs, clearcase, mks, some real esoteric ones) for years, then subversion for over a decade. Then I had to move to git, sourcetree and crapbucket. Then I learned fear. I've read many guides, but I still couldn't explain what a rebase is. @tess I am pretty far removed from teaching tools like this nowadays. If advising a smart, driven friend who's running Windows (like, say, my friend with a bio PhD who keeps asking me questions about awk and shell scripting), I would probably suggest they use their IDE's support for git or a shell extension like https://tortoisegit.org/. Is that a reasonable starting point these days? It doesn't help with the git model (or the myriad of oopsies like, "I rebased and can't push to remote anymore," and "I checked out a floating HEAD what is a floating HEAD oh god"), but at least it provides a UI layer that might help keep them from straying into that territory in the first week. @trurl oh neat, I didn't realize Tortoise did a git implementation! I used their SVN integration for along time. (Unfortunately, I'm now developing on three platforms for five, so I can't consistently use Tortoise.) @trurl @tess +1 for using the IDE. One chicken-and-egg reason for git becoming so ubiquitous is the amount of tooling for it. The fact that I can pull up VSCode and do all my day-to-day git stuff with just a couple of clicks makes it easy to ignore how awful it is under the hood. Comparing to Perforce, which I also have to use daily, which has minimal VSCode support, and I have to jump back to the (admittedly, 100x better) command line for the 10k edge cases. |
Gregory's Server
@trurl
my observations during hackathons with (mainly) students say me:
a) unis are very far from realistic dev loop/pattern
b) lack of depriving from contact IRL also spoils and "simplifies"
c) large / mature FLOSS project give boost about it
@tess