Email or username:

Password:

Forgot your password?
All posts e̷r̴i̸s̶ :verifiedpurple: 's posts Post Back to profile
Top-level
Dr. Quadragon ❌

@eris are you seriously advocating for death penalty?

17 May 2023 at 18:33 | Wall-to-wall | Open on mastodon.ml
12 comments
e̷r̴i̸s̶ :verifiedpurple:
@drq I think there's an additional moral question of how to make sure it's actually justified, but if you think someone is so morally reprehensible that they cannot exist freely in society then yes
17 May 2023 at 18:35 | Open on akko.disqordia.space
Dr. Quadragon ❌

@eris yes, and that is the kicker. And it's not a moral question, it's a very practical one. The cost of failure. What if you make a mistake? And in justice, this happens A LOT. You can't just reverse death of a person.

Also, the imbalance of power and the propagation of power this would create is way, WAY worse. See how they push the boundry of the law more and more into our personal lives to the point of throwing people in jail for every minor indiscression especially if you're not cis white hetero man?

Yeah. Imagine that but with death penalty instead.

@eris yes, and that is the kicker. And it's not a moral question, it's a very practical one. The cost of failure. What if you make a mistake? And in justice, this happens A LOT. You can't just reverse death of a person.

Also, the imbalance of power and the propagation of power this would create is way, WAY worse. See how they push the boundry of the law more and more into our personal lives to the point of throwing people in jail for every minor indiscression especially if you're not cis white hetero man?

17 May 2023 at 18:46 | Open on mastodon.ml
e̷r̴i̸s̶ :verifiedpurple:
@drq I mean even in anarchist models without prison and with community justice, it's going to be subject to mob mentality and there will be mistakes.

I think there should be a proper system to keep a community in check for potential errors but I don't think housing rapists and murderers and giving them a comfy life in a cell is the better option if we can prove they are a danger to society and have enacted worse violence on others
@drq I mean even in anarchist models without prison and with community justice, it's going to be subject to mob mentality and there will be mistakes.

I think there should be a proper system to keep a community in check for potential errors but I don't think housing rapists and murderers and giving them a comfy life in a cell is the better option if we can prove they are a danger to society and have...
17 May 2023 at 18:48 | Open on akko.disqordia.space
Dr. Quadragon ❌

@eris when you multiply what you said by racism, homophobia and transphobia and remind yourself of what Joe Average* imagines a "murderer, rapist and/or child molester" looks like, realise how quickly can turntables...

Also, power propagation problem still exists. When all you have is the hammer, everything starts looking like nails. Whom will you trust the power to decide who gets to die? Whomever you will, they will use it for their own benefit, maybe reluctantly at first, but in totality, eventually. That's not anarchism, you've basically created a god on earth. Which what the king was back in the day.

(* with sincere apology to anyone actually named Joseph Average)

@eris when you multiply what you said by racism, homophobia and transphobia and remind yourself of what Joe Average* imagines a "murderer, rapist and/or child molester" looks like, realise how quickly can turntables...

Also, power propagation problem still exists. When all you have is the hammer, everything starts looking like nails. Whom will you trust the power to decide who gets to die? Whomever you will, they will use it for their own benefit, maybe reluctantly at first, but in totality, eventually....

17 May 2023 at 19:03 | Open on mastodon.ml
e̷r̴i̸s̶ :verifiedpurple:
@drq I mean those are still issues with a prison system, I'm curious what your solution would be except to offer whatabouts?

Like I don't think the answer is to not have any method whatsoever to stop eg sexual violence
17 May 2023 at 19:04 | Open on akko.disqordia.space
Dr. Quadragon ❌

@eris
> I mean those are still issues with a prison system

And no. If you jail a wrong person, you can release them, apologize and compensate for your mistake at least somehow. You won't give them their time back, but at least you can give them something for the trouble.

Unless you have the ability to litetally resurrect the dead, this doesn't work with death penalty.

And prepare to make a lot of mistakes, as I said, justice is a very complex and error-prone process. As you may know from history of the entire human fucking species.

@eris
> I mean those are still issues with a prison system

And no. If you jail a wrong person, you can release them, apologize and compensate for your mistake at least somehow. You won't give them their time back, but at least you can give them something for the trouble.

Unless you have the ability to litetally resurrect the dead, this doesn't work with death penalty.

17 May 2023 at 19:17 | Open on mastodon.ml
e̷r̴i̸s̶ :verifiedpurple:
@drq see I dont think that's a good solution.

Imprisoning them causes trauma, it causes financial burdens, it encourages them to commit more crime, and it exacerbates racial tribalism. You can't undo imprisoning them, it's as serious as killing them. No one comes out of that the same person and if they weren't a violent offender before they will likely become one.

It should only be used when verifying if someone did commit violence I think, and not as a solution
@drq see I dont think that's a good solution.

Imprisoning them causes trauma, it causes financial burdens, it encourages them to commit more crime, and it exacerbates racial tribalism. You can't undo imprisoning them, it's as serious as killing them. No one comes out of that the same person and if they weren't a violent offender before they will likely become one.
17 May 2023 at 19:30 | Open on akko.disqordia.space
DELETED

@eris@akko.disqordia.space the problem again, as @drq@mastodon.ml mentioned briefly but not elaborated enough at, is abuse of these measures.

I'm not sure it makes sense to talk about idealistic societies where the judgement is almost perfect: how much does it differ from the equally unrealistic society where the crime does not exist at all?

In non-ideal society the power of death penalty will be abused, overused, mal-used, and so on, say, as a foolproof way to remove the polical opponents, while even the lifetime imprisonment is still limited by the characteristic law stability timescale, which can be pretty short in some countries.

For example, Fyodor Dostoevsky was originally sentenced to death for some allegedly revolutionary activity, which was changed to Siberian exile in the last few moments before the firing squad executed the order. He wrote most of his novels after the exile.

@eris@akko.disqordia.space the problem again, as @drq@mastodon.ml mentioned briefly but not elaborated enough at, is abuse of these measures.

I'm not sure it makes sense to talk about idealistic societies where the judgement is almost perfect: how much does it differ from the equally unrealistic society where the crime does not exist at all?

In non-ideal society the power of death penalty will be abused, overused, mal-used, and so on, say, as a foolproof way to remove the polical opponents, while...

17 May 2023 at 19:50 | Open on shitpost.poridge.club
Dr. Quadragon ❌

@taxuswc

> as  @drq mentioned briefly but not elaborated enough at, is abuse of these measures.

I'm trying!!!!!!

I just can't point it out enough, and I doubt anybody can, just look at the history, we can screw ourselves SO royally with this stuff like oh my fucking god.

@eris

17 May 2023 at 19:53 | Open on mastodon.ml
DELETED replied to Dr. Quadragon ❌

@drq@mastodon.ml yeah, sorry, probably a wrong word, I meant an intentional abuse, not the accidental one.

@eris@akko.disqordia.space

17 May 2023 at 19:57 | Open on shitpost.poridge.club
Dr. Quadragon ❌ replied to DELETED

@taxuswc I also addressed intentional. I said it would be reluctant and incidental, at first.

@eris

17 May 2023 at 19:58 | Open on mastodon.ml
Dr. Quadragon ❌ replied to Dr. Quadragon ❌

@taxuswc @eris Anyhow, "abolish all prisons so we can just murder people instead" is NOT a very good argument for prison abolition, on oh so many levels.

Eris, with all respect I have for you (still do, no joke), you literally talked yourself into a corner here.

17 May 2023 at 20:05 | Open on mastodon.ml
Go Up