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Top-level
 @Torfinn @risottobias @EposVox *sigh* What level of redundancy is acceptable to you, and how many trees are you willing to burn down to get that level of redundancy? Because IMO a file hosted on a few thousand servers is about as redundant as I could practically imagine. 24 comments
@mav @risottobias @EposVox I wasn’t even attempting to address this problem but it’s a huge one that shockingly most folks building systems today don’t even conceive of as a problem because it’s just the “options we have” @Torfinn @risottobias @EposVox I guess I didn't even really consider IPFS as 'web3', since it's a totally reasonable solution to a real problem instead of grafting a blockchain on a currency and calling it revolutionary That said, you could accomplish many of the same goals with, say, SyncThing. Or rsync, if you're feeling particularly masochistic. @mav @risottobias @EposVox everyone that built or is presently building new features for IPFS certainly consider it web3 😜 in fact I’d say most of us think it’s one of the most important web3 primitives. It’s certainly not web2 that’s for sure.  @Torfinn @mav @risottobias web 2 and web 3 are marketing terms so you’re going to have a hard time avoiding association with bullshit used for marketing when using marketing terms @EposVox @mav @risottobias when you have an entire tech stack that requires browser plugins to even access I think it’s reasonable to call it more than marketing. Maybe once a browser can natively support some of these primitives we can have that argument but for now there’s an entire translation layer required to even try. Brave is getting there @Torfinn @mav @risottobias I mean… there’s plenty of protocols that have been around for decades that don’t work in common web browsers lol Web3 as a concept is just marketing, was my point. It’s not like we’d only still be on the 2nd version of the web or something lmao @EposVox @mav @risottobias that’s fair. However, arguably this is an entire ecosystem of interdependent protocols which build on one another. I wouldn’t exactly put some one off open source project that presently has no real adoption in that same category. What would you call all this stuff? NFT’s, IPFS, decentralized finance? These things couldn’t be further apart in data model/schemas but simultaneously they leverage the same tech stack/principles. @mav @EposVox @risottobias I have to ask have you actually read the IPFS white paper? https://github.com/ipfs/papers/blob/master/ipfs-cap2pfs/ipfs-p2p-file-system.pdf  @risottobias @mav @EposVox so what you don’t like about web3 primitives is that they prioritize digital chain of custody and you disagree with digital ownership? @Torfinn @risottobias @EposVox creating digital scarcity from objects that shouldn't be scarce is more capitalism. In a world that needs a lot less capitalism. So this gets into things that I would call "evil" DRM is bad and so is this. @Torfinn @risottobias @EposVox suddenly this place feels a lot more like Twitter. @mav @risottobias @EposVox I don’t know how to say this in a way that isn’t capitalistic but I have data I may not want to share with you but I hope to store and I don’t expect someone to provide that service to me entirely for free although I really like the idea that you could store that data for me and make enough money to justify doing it without giving a bunch of money to AWS at a cost that equates to the cost of running the network and not incentivizing some big organization @Torfinn @risottobias @EposVox But that's not a function of IPFS, you're talking about something like Filecoin. You could just as easily do that with a handshake agreement and a direct value transfer of your choice, and save a lot of trees. There’s a really easy way to fix that. Bing! I just fixed my feed. @Torfinn @EposVox @risottobias I haven't no. Please tell me it doesn't use a blockchain. @Torfinn @risottobias @EposVox yeah, I'm uncertain how you tell the difference. I really thought 'web3' was synonymous with 'blockchain'. So is SyncThing web3? @mav @risottobias @EposVox id never looked into this but this doesn’t seem much different than a distributed hash table at least in principle. So if I were forced to describe this I’d call web2 tech stack leveraging a web3 primitive with the block protocol they describe. We do something like this with our IPfS network indexer building a blockchain if announcement messages leveraging mostly web2 stack but a web3 primitive @mav @risottobias @EposVox to be fair this is an argument people building have all the time. Where is this project at in a x, y, graph of decentralized/distributed vs centrally usable. It never ends. There are endless vectors to explore in this topic. @Torfinn @mav @EposVox web3 is anything that attempts to use coins and hype itself (ipfs is halfway there with ipns) - kinda like fediverse is activitypub Self hosted things like syncthing or tor or ssb just say "this is my public key, this is my router, say hello" So: radicle is a distributed git server, that uses both ssb (as a transport protocol, which is fine) and ethereum (well, "rad") as a governance token - so yes it's a wasteful blockchain |
Gregory's Server
@mav @risottobias @EposVox YES!!!! IPFS content addressable data has the potential to unscrew up so much of the ridiculously unnecessary storage practices we’ve just chosen to accept as how things are done. It’s relieving to see someone get it in the wilds out here. If you haven’t seen it I’d highly recommend Joe Armstrongs(RIP) computer science talk “the mess we’re in”