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Robert Reich

Elon Musk lost $13 billion in 24 hours on Thursday, and he’s still the world’s second richest person

Don't tell me billionaires can't afford a wealth tax.

60 comments
climate voter/bike supremacist

@rbreich If we actually lived in a Democracy, we could do something about this.

MiMi Agnew

@tmstreet @rbreich For 57 years we had a democracy. Now it’s slipping from our fingers because people elected folks who represented industries and not their interest or gerrymandered. We got bamboozzeled! But young people have Woke Up! By 2026 most of these legislators will be out of business! Please count on the future!Save,save Save The Children 🎼

Gargravar

@tmstreet @rbreich it's similar fantasist rhetoric to the anti-jewish messages of the Nazis. They lived in a democracy, and to do something about it, they overthrew the democracy and put in place a strong man... Trump tried something similar, remember? The left and right wing extremists both want the same thing: total control. Beware their simplistic narratives.

The Aforementioned W

@rbreich See, we can't tax them because then they might not be able to afford to do utterly ridiculous and destructive things.

KorvaxChris

@rbreich Elon Musk blew $40+ billion on a social media platform that is worth maybe a fifth of that and his status also didn’t change.

That, I think, is even more damning of the system.

MiMi Agnew

@KorvaxChris @rbreich Elon is 48 billion dollars in debt to the Saudis for Twitter. How ridiculous is that? He better watch his back.

Renegade

@MiMi1026 @KorvaxChris @rbreich more ridiculous is Saudis leaning to China, that means Musk is a traitor and tool of the CCP (maga would love to say that!)

Uncle CharlieA

@KorvaxChris @rbreich I think he did that with lots of Other People’s money. There seemed to be a cabal ready to help him.

Diane 🕵

@rbreich

Also I think the stock market is likely overvalued, probably because so many retirement programs are now just funneling money into the stock market which inflates stock prices.

Also the way we calculate net worth by multiplying the last share price times total number of shares likely vastly overestimates the value of a company. If large numbers of shares were sold the price per share would almost certainly fall.

James M.

@alienghic @rbreich but they're not sold all at once, for that very reason. They're sold in controlled small batches.

Diane 🕵

@jamesmarshall @rbreich

It really depends on how demand works. How likely is a third party to decide they have enough exposure to some company? Is there an upper limit to the number of shares someone wants to buy of company X?

And I sort of assume so?

Also since it's mostly rich people buying the large batches of stocks a wealth tax would also force the rich people buying other companies to sell off some of their stock.

Admittedly spreading ownership of companies out more would probably be more democratic. A bunch of twitter's (or facebooks) problems are because there's no one who can check the owner (or CEO) who controls the majority of the voting shares.

@jamesmarshall @rbreich

It really depends on how demand works. How likely is a third party to decide they have enough exposure to some company? Is there an upper limit to the number of shares someone wants to buy of company X?

And I sort of assume so?

Also since it's mostly rich people buying the large batches of stocks a wealth tax would also force the rich people buying other companies to sell off some of their stock.

jabberati

@alienghic @rbreich "Make a company with 100 shares. Sell one to a friend for $10,000. Boom. Instant Millionaire".

Smörhuvud (he/surprise me)

@rbreich What is the state of the art about at what point wealth ceases to be a meaningful incentive toward hard work and entrepreneurship? 2x median income? 5x? What’s the current economics line on this?

Diabetic Heihachi

@rbreich
I like the idea of wealth cap. You can only hoard X amount of profits. After a certain point all profits above that amount are diverted to social projects, healthcare infrastructure.

oh, and still tax the shit out of them too. This wouldn't replace taxes, it stops people from behaving like Smaug from The Hobbit.

Juha Autero

@DavBot @rbreich It's not about profits. It's about value. You don't become a billionaire by earning money, you become a billionaire by increasing value.

Unlike Smaug, Billionaires don't hoard gold in a cave, they hoard numbers on the spreadsheet. Billionare is basically an accounting term. A person who holds at least billion dollars worth of assets. Musk is billionaire because he owns large enough portion of $500 billion company. And he got that portion by buying it when Tesla was valued in millions. It's just numbers in database that have value because people believe they have value. On the other hand, so is money in the bank.

@DavBot @rbreich It's not about profits. It's about value. You don't become a billionaire by earning money, you become a billionaire by increasing value.

Unlike Smaug, Billionaires don't hoard gold in a cave, they hoard numbers on the spreadsheet. Billionare is basically an accounting term. A person who holds at least billion dollars worth of assets. Musk is billionaire because he owns large enough portion of $500 billion company. And he got that portion by buying it when Tesla was valued in millions....

Green Hombre

@rbreich That wasn't what we meant by "burn a fatty on 420, Elon."

DELETED

@rbreich isn't profit on selling bonds and shares already taxed in the US?

Juha Autero

@metodrybar @rbreich Owning bonds and shares aren't. Musk lost 14 billion because Tesla stock price dropped causing the total value of Tesla stocks Musk owns drop 14 billion.

DELETED

@jautero @rbreich how do you want to tax owning shares? As the value is so volatile, how would you calculate how much to pay a tax each year? Do you still pay if you are loosing money?

Juha Autero

@metodrybar @rbreich You should ask people who are advocating for wealth tax. I was just pointing out wealth tax means taxing owning shares.

Luckily, the answer is simple. It doesn't matter how I want to tax owning shares, it's up to Congress. If you tax wealth, you need tax code to define how to calculate wealth.

doppelfish ☑️

@rbreich so he was, like, walking down the street, and those $13 billion fell out of his pocket, right.

Hardworking American

@doppelfish @rbreich I used to give him credit for creating jobs until he laid off everyone at Twitter.

Big Head Tales

@rbreich
The filthy rich are destroying the lives of countless working people. They garner almost unlimited power while suffering no consequences for their unstable actions.

Just ask any of the tens of thousands of tech workers at Amazon, Meta, and Disney being burned by filthy rich CEOs to make billionaire shareholders happy.

Sailing Pirate

@rbreich no he's not, expected stock profit doesn't translate to wealth, it's just an inflated number he uses to scam investors there are 100s of billionaires with more assets than him, but of course the arab prince, illegal mine owners and ultra rich corrupt politicians won't ever show on Forbes

Wade Wainio

@rbreich If anyone can afford to pay more, it's Elon Musk

Theresa Kessler

@rbreich I believe they should pay a higher tax AND get rid of the writeoffs on their taxes. My sister is a multi millionaire and I firmly believe she should pay more in taxes. Granted she busted her butt working to get to this level, but the write offs are unreal!

Royden

@rbreich does that include the exploding rocket 🚀, or is that someone elses money?

Julien M.
@rbreich true, but once only to take them all, otherwise we would depend on people like Elon Musk becoming rich in the first place to finance the civil servants, and public investments...

That's to avoid such nonsense that in 1946-47 the French communist ministers, Maurice Thorez, Marcel Paul and Ambroise Croizat, created the "Régime général", financed by social contributions, not taxes, to invest in huge projects like building hospitals, and to socialize the wages of unemployed, medical staffs, parents, and retired people, all that before the added-value is split between profits and employed's wages.

That's what has been dismantled by all governments since then, up to the huge attack on retirements by Emmanuel Macron this month.
@rbreich true, but once only to take them all, otherwise we would depend on people like Elon Musk becoming rich in the first place to finance the civil servants, and public investments...

That's to avoid such nonsense that in 1946-47 the French communist ministers, Maurice Thorez, Marcel Paul and Ambroise Croizat, created the "Régime général", financed by social contributions, not taxes, to invest...
Staid Winnow

@rbreich

This is also why it doesn't matter that he or his rich buddies grossly overpaid for Qwitter.

They now access to the premier microblogging platform and will propel it to be a gigantic right-wing propaganda megaphone.

Maddad ☑️

@rbreich

Yes, it's ridiculous.
Not fair.
Needs to be changed immediately.

Vex

@rbreich do you respond to replies, or do you have a policy of not? Asking mostly because I've never seen you respond, save for larger accounts… though it's been a while since I've been on twitter & I haven't exactly sleuthed around with any effort beyond what comes on my feed.

rood

@vex he's probably just handing off media to his communications team.

Scott Knowles

@rbreich He'd do more good just sending $40 to every American.

Kris Samsel

@rbreich What’s Twitter’s new name? Merged into X? Twix?

Greed

@rbreich They wouldn't be billionaires if they paid a wealth tax

JSkier :archlinux: :debian:

@rbreich But Robert, how will he ever keep up with the other Jones' billionaires? 🤔

Shofs

@rbreich Has anyone suggested they can’t “afford” it? That’s not why there isn’t a wealth tax. They can definitely afford to contest the constitutionality of such a tax if, by some miracle, Congress actually passed such a thing—and the people who decide what is constitutional (at least six out of nine of them) would absolutely find that it wasn’t.

JJ Peterson

@rbreich@masto.ai You are aware Biden is the guy who continually supports a wealth tax, has actually taxed the rich to pay for recovery and infrastructure (despite the Tax the Rich squad voting against Taxing the Rich) and wants to do more, right? The guy doing all the progressive actions like using taxes on the rich to address climate change, institutional racism, and human rights, the guy progressives dislike because he’s not young and pretty (or a misogynist crank)?

CareFlag She/Her

@rbreich
Wasn't $3 billion of that on us taxpayers?

JakeQuokkaMCM

@rbreich it all depends to those guys who they are losing it to. If it's the stock market casino it's ok, it it's to taxes then it's not so good.

Martin Johnstone

@rbreich or simply to pay what they ACTUALLY owe. No evasion. No avoidance. No loopholes. No write offs.

Pensador Louco :fuck_verify:

@rbreich The best thing is, if we all start a millionaire hunting campaign, it will have so much less targets that it will be easier than the trouble they have hunting us poors.

hsaliak

@rbreich honest question, with Tesla, don’t you think he has done to reduce pollution than most? This is the question that trips me up.

MamaBear :fuck_verify:

@rbreich
You have never replied to a single person here have you Mr. Reich. Doesn’t that seem a bit odd?

Gargravar

@rbreich he lost predicted future value that stems from the manner in which he is expected to employ capital lent to him by others. Fantasy money.
Musk is a fantasist, but then, so are you.

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