Gregory's ServerAre we ready to talk about how police dressing in riot gear and acting, well, like cops, makes crowds more likely to riot? No? OK then. Proceed.
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/06/01/why-so-many-police-are-handling-the-protests-wrong
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102 comments
@thierna @mekkaokereke "why do the fascists who were established for the sole purpose of maintaining white supremacy and protecting the bourgeoisie keep acting like fascist white supremacists uwu"  @thierna @mekkaokereke “There’s this failed mindset of ‘if we show force, we’ll deter criminal or unruly activity.’ Show me where that’s worked,” said Scott Thomson, Camden, NJ former police chief. “That's the primal response…adrenaline starts to pump, temperature rises & you want to go one step higher. But what we need to know as professionals is that there are times, if we go one step higher, we are forcing them to go one step higher.” @thierna @mekkaokereke @Cassandra From my point of view, I used to see that point in numbers. Like if there were a lot of police. But now there a lot of armoured police that seem to be looking for a fight. You dont think you could actually harm them, but they look frightenly aggresive. Once you see some peaceful protester hit by riot police, it just creates a more radical response because it is so unfair. @Cassandra police now believe they are invincible and have no issue attacking first. The money we poured into funding them assured that. We have to reverse course. @mekkaokereke while they make laws making it illegal to protest or comment against authority. Guess I'm on a list now  @mekkaokereke @albinanigans @mekkaokereke  @mekkaokereke As we’ve seen time and agin the police are essentially a bunch of sociopaths looking to harm others, or they’re a bunch of complacent lumps that allow the sociopaths to proceed unabated. Seems to be few in between. @KFuentesGeorge @mekkaokereke @KFuentesGeorge @mekkaokereke exactly right and there's plenty of footage from 2020 and emails and text messages produced in discovery in civil cases against the police for excessive use of force that show exactly this. How else will they get an opportunity to use those military grade toys they buy? @KFuentesGeorge I agree. Aggressive police behaviour is often the cause of violence as people react to being attacked. The resulting chaos then allows the police to claim they are simply restoring order. Surprising how many people believe this fiction. @KFuentesGeorge @mekkaokereke Richard Daley, Chicago, 1968: "The police are not here to create disorder, they're here to preserve disorder." @KFuentesGeorge @mekkaokereke Provoke a reaction from a few. Claim that as justification for further escilations. Especially against groups that seek to shine a light on the corruption. See also the BLM protests.  @KFuentesGeorge @mekkaokereke Truer word was never spoken, sir! It's well known that the police seed protests with agents provocateurs, who incite people to violence. The police see the people angry, in open revolt against them, and fear that their power is slipping away. They're LOOKING for an excuse to beat the holy bejesus out of some Black and brown people for holding them accountable for the murder of TyreNichols.  @mekkaokereke Kettling, shield beating, having "that guy" who's too loose with the pepper spray or the baton right up front, are all calculated to induce a fight or flight response in the protestors, who are then prevented from fleeing. Panic and riot are easy to manufacture. @LinuxAndYarn @mekkaokereke There's acting like cops, and there's acting like an overfed version of Seal Team 6 invading Osama Bin Laden's safe house. Post 9/11 militarization of police has added greatly to the problems with US policing.
I was once stopped by a local cop and asked why I curled my lip when I passed him in the street. I told him because of behaviour like stopping people in the street because they don't like you  @mekkaokereke This piece is IMO both too charitable and also in a weird way too hard on police. They're not using the wrong tool to achieve their goals, despite decades of evidence it doesn't work, because they're incompetent. They're using exactly the right tool, honed to perfection over decades, to achieve their goals, because they're malevolent.  @mekkaokereke I think that's the point. They provoke so they can have cause. @mekkaokereke and that’s not counting the times they simply start the riot themselves.  Sorry to keep commenting, but I have direct experience with this. It was exactly this way in Portland during the George Floyd protests. It was not us who were rioting. Standing still in a line with arms linked chanting slogans is not rioting. It was them. Every time.  @JenWojcik Guess who got the party started in Minneapolis at the Autozone across from the Third Precinct? #UmbrellaMan @Zeke @wndlb @JenWojcik I believe the Daily Beast outed him, but I could be wrong, since there are well over a thousand criminals involved in fueling their desired Civil War. @thepoliticalcat @wndlb @JenWojcik you're right, I stand corrected re umbrella man. Still, Minneapolis takes credit for the third precinct. That's ours @thepoliticalcat @Zeke @wndlb @JenWojcik actually, they aren’t sure it was the white supremacist guy. there was a very recent post by the FBI asking if anyone could ID #umbrellaman @JenWojcik @mekkaokereke Portland was among the worst I saw during that period (and the unmarked vans snatching citizen from the street, WTF?!?), but I also remember a very ugly Boston Police Riot and really there was just so much to choose from. Remember that old man knocked down by the Buffalo police? Think I recently saw, no charges or discipline for those servants of the people. Kyle, the killer in Kenosha, got high fives from the police etc etc Yeah, I was "unarrested" by my companions. They tried it, but I'm slippery. And yes to ALLLLL of that.  @BrentInMasto @JenWojcik @mekkaokereke I kept waiting to hear of someone being held accountable for the people being snatched off the streets by the people in unmarked vans. And, yeah, no one accountable for the head injury of the old man simply asking a question. @CStamp @BrentInMasto @mekkaokereke It will never happen. There was no identification whatsoever on any uniform at any time. The vehicles were rented and unmarked. There will never be accountability for what they did to us. @JenWojcik @CStamp @mekkaokereke Yeah, I had hoped Anonymous or some Antifa friendly hacking group would turn up _something_ but <crickets> @BrentInMasto @CStamp @mekkaokereke It's impossible. We all took photos, recorded (not people's faces because you don't do that crap at a protest), but they were all obscured. Head to toe riot gear. Black. @JenWojcik @CStamp @mekkaokereke Yup, I was thinking there might be a paper trail to the places they'd rented the vans from or something @BrentInMasto @JenWojcik @mekkaokereke That elderly gentleman, who was obviousy, blatantly, assaulted by the police is a lifelong peace activist who was trying to return something to a cop. As a result of that blow to the head, he ended up in care for quite a while, relearning how to function. TBI. @thepoliticalcat @JenWojcik @mekkaokereke Was in a different thread, similar convo last night. Discussion focused on violent v non-violent protest and I commented that it sadly seems the only way non-violent protest works is if they get beaten badly in front of a camera and there is a public outcry and resulting action. That sense of public shock seems to be fading away as a possible agent of change. Today is a good test of that, once again at the cost of an innocent man's life. @BrentInMasto @thepoliticalcat @mekkaokereke Yep. But then what next? Armed protests? Because that's hot civil war and it's what they want. @JenWojcik @thepoliticalcat @mekkaokereke Yeah, I know! What next is the big question and we were all stumped last night too. Consensus seemed to be keep plugging away with mutual understanding and compassion and help to all. Be the better example and show how cooperation and respect can build a better future. I do put a lot of faith in this next generation coming up. @JenWojcik @thepoliticalcat @mekkaokereke Re next generation, they are going to have unheard of chances to change things like never before as all of society breaks down around their ears. Poor sods! @JenWojcik @thepoliticalcat @mekkaokereke Got three myself, two quite young but eldest knows what's up and is making me proud. I feel terrible about her chances of her living a better life than her parents but I do know she will live a life of her own regardless @JenWojcik @thepoliticalcat @mekkaokereke re armed protest and that being what they want, I brought up the same thing when someone suggested we needed to 'light a fire' last night. Turned out they meant more of start an enlightenment than a war @BrentInMasto @JenWojcik @mekkaokereke But you're not talking about what we CAN do: we can start by ensuring the trial gets plenty of coverage. We can fund the memorial Tyre's parents want to dedicate to him. We can reach out to voters in red states via various political campaigns, or groups like Red2Blue. We can volunteer and knock doors and text folks, and turn out voters. Protest is only ONE of our tools. @thepoliticalcat @BrentInMasto @mekkaokereke I ran for office, I worked my butt off. We all did. Preaching to the choir @JenWojcik @thepoliticalcat @mekkaokereke Woah, running for office, congrats that is brave and a serious commitment. Old friend of mine recently took an independent run for Co Commission and I saw how hard he worked his butt off @BrentInMasto @thepoliticalcat @mekkaokereke I ran for New Mexico state house for the 2020 election. Hardest shit I've ever done, and I gave birth without drugs. @JenWojcik @BrentInMasto @mekkaokereke Well, good for you! That is not, regrettably, something I could even consider, being elderly and quite disabled. I hope you will consider running again. @thepoliticalcat @JenWojcik @mekkaokereke These are all great examples! And I think a lot of new people pick up and start using these things in response to tragedies around the issues they end up working to change.  @mekkaokereke My house is within earshot of the 3rd precinct, the epicenter of the riots that followed the murder of George Floyd. I’m telling you: it was a police riot. It was 100% the cops who instigated the violence, the cops who relentlessly escalated it, the cops who pushed it utterly out of control. And it was purposeful. They were sending Minneapolis a message about firing Chauvin so quickly: “Oh, you want to mess with us? Watch what we do to your city.“ @inthehands Well that, and a well-liquored crowd just looking for trouble of any kind they could make. #UmbrellaMan, and the guy who put up posts of himself handing out firebombs, and aspiring looters. First time I’ve ever seen a melted stoplight. @wndlb Yeah, after everything went to hell, there were people showing up ranging from organized crime to frat boys who think getting drunk and stealing street signs is a good time. It wasn’t like that at first, of course. Something people don’t understand: larger protests are generally •safer•. When you have a march full of grandparents and little kids, people keep each other safe, keep each other mentally in one piece. 1/2 @wndlb That’s why the cops unleashed all that tear gas: not just hurt protesters, but to send most people home. Cops make the situation too dangerous for most people to say, create a much smaller, much more dangerous crowd, and then they have a situation they can push to the point of exploding. 2/2 @inthehands @wndlb exactly how it went down at Occupy Oakland, too - deliberate tactic to discredit citizens @joeblubaugh @wndlb Yup. Discredit, and even more importantly, terrorize. People who are afraid of violence (well, white people who are afraid, anyway) vote for bigger police budgets, even when it’s the police causing the violence. A protest turning violent is just pure win-win for police: bash heads today, get a bigger budget tomorrow.  @inthehands @mekkaokereke @mekkaokereke it says something when the USA really could learn many lessons from our police over here in the UK (who are far from perfect as recent news too clearly shows) But it seems the correct tactic is to have the riot gear in a van a little distance behind the police along the line they can retreat if it does turn violent.... Then be there in numbers in normal gear with no weapons drawn and an attitude of "we are here to FACILITATE peaceful protest" |
@mekkaokereke "Researchers have spent 50 years studying the way crowds of protesters and crowds of police behave—and what happens when the two interact. ... disproportionate #PoliceForce is one of the things that can make a peaceful protest not so peaceful. But if we know that (and have known that for decades), why are #police still doing it? "
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/06/01/why-so-many-police-are-handling-the-protests-wrong
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