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Andrew (Television Executive)

@bl00dberri

I think that, perhaps, you have fundamentally misunderstood the place in which you are participating.

Defederating from instances with which you have issues is not only common practice, but also good. Lots of right wing shitbags have run mastodon instances in the past, some still do, we're separated from them.

The decentralized nature of the network is the biggest hurdle to onboarding and adoption, but it's also the only reason the place can continue to exist at all. It would be too expensive to run, and too difficult to moderate, and too full of petty drama if it was all one thing.

I'm glad your enjoying the space, I hope you stick with it for a while, I think you'll find that the union makes us strong in ways that centralization cannot.

19 Nov 2022 at 14:26 | Open on retro.social
11 comments
Genevieve Routhier

@ajroach42 I don't misunderstand, I just am currently witnessing partial defederalization of the instance I'm on because someone created an account 3 years ago and hasn't used it, and is apparently a biggot. And the mod won't ban the account and other instances gamedev instances are cutting ties because of that, thus penalizing thousands.

I don't even want to brush on the issue with the guy, but I don't see how this is a measured response or a welcome behaviour.

19 Nov 2022 at 14:29 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Genevieve Routhier

@ajroach42 I am also not against defederalized networks on principle. But human drama is never far and I don't see how this kind of chaos is healthy (the one described above anyway).

19 Nov 2022 at 14:31 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Andrew (Television Executive)

@bl00dberri I'm always going to be on the side of protecting my local users over maintaining access to the rest of the network.

Migrating between instances is easy.

Defederating from instances that won't moderate their platform is how we, as a community, protect ourselves.

And we won't always agree, and so the network fragments. IMO, that's better than the alternative.

19 Nov 2022 at 14:59 | Open on retro.social
Genevieve Routhier

@ajroach42 But this is a super extreme case don't you think?

and also, this is not the case of one instance being troublesome, in which case yeah sure just cut off ties. People could just block that account preemptively.

If the account was active then 100% he would have been ejected. But who's to know what kind of content someone might post when the account isn't even used? Do you pre-ban people "just in case"? Is that ethical? How far will you go to protect your users?

19 Nov 2022 at 15:03 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Andrew (Television Executive)

@bl00dberri I don't know the details of this case, so I won't comment on it.

I will say that when a notorious bigot made an account on mastodonapp.uk, I notified them that the person in question was a notorious bigot, and suspended the instance 24 hours later.

They said, essentially "this person hasn't violated our rules yet" which is kind of like saying "That white supremacist hasn't attacked anyone in front of me"

When someone shows you who they are, you have to believe them. If an instance is willing to accept a known bigot, because they haven't done anything bigoted "on this platform yet" that's just providing cover.

Again, I don't know the details of this instance, maybe folks are blowing it out of proportion, but it sounds like an instance admin choosing to protect an unused account from a known abuser, rather than proactively take a stance against bigotry.

@bl00dberri I don't know the details of this case, so I won't comment on it.

I will say that when a notorious bigot made an account on mastodonapp.uk, I notified them that the person in question was a notorious bigot, and suspended the instance 24 hours later.

They said, essentially "this person hasn't violated our rules yet" which is kind of like saying "That white supremacist hasn't attacked anyone in front of me"

19 Nov 2022 at 15:15 | Open on retro.social
Genevieve Routhier

@ajroach42 You also assume in your response that it might be the admins who are shitbags, but what happens when it is the mob that is in the wrong?

I'm genuinely curious, don't want to troll. Maybe I'm a cynic, which is possible, but I don't think crowds are smarter either, y'know?

anywho, interested in the conversation if you have the time ^^

19 Nov 2022 at 14:33 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Andrew (Television Executive)

@bl00dberri The mob is often wrong. They were wrong about Hacker's Town, for example. About a quarter of the network defederated, the remaining 3/4s didn't, and everyone continues on with their lives.

For anyone who felt this was untenable, they migrated. (Either from somewhere that had defederated to somewhere that hadn't, or vice versa.)

About 10% of instances block our instance, for example. I block a bunch of other instances. maybe 30% of the network blocks mastodon.social.

It doesn't hurt anyone.

@bl00dberri The mob is often wrong. They were wrong about Hacker's Town, for example. About a quarter of the network defederated, the remaining 3/4s didn't, and everyone continues on with their lives.

For anyone who felt this was untenable, they migrated. (Either from somewhere that had defederated to somewhere that hadn't, or vice versa.)

19 Nov 2022 at 15:03 | Open on retro.social
Genevieve Routhier

@ajroach42 Well this is where I think we disagree. It does hurt communication.

also I know it's a massive blocker for a lot of people I've tried to convince to join the platform. They want to have control over what they censor or not, and not have a "big brother" mod do it for them (I'm exagerating a bit here just for the example).

Hence why I think this'll impede Mastodon's capability to overtake Twitter, even if the algo does "censor" too albeit in an obfuscated way.

19 Nov 2022 at 15:07 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Andrew (Television Executive)

@bl00dberri I never said anything about overtaking twitter.

And if they're concerned about that censorship 1) self host an instance, you can do it with one click on a $10 droplet from Digital ocean 2) expect to get blocked by like 3/4 of the network for interacting with the bigots who make up the other 1/4.

19 Nov 2022 at 15:18 | Open on retro.social
Genevieve Routhier

@ajroach42 well "overtaking twitter" was meant mostly as "twitter replacement" considering this is what animates most in this migration.

anyway, this isn't about being a power user either, especially if that's the one way to not have to bother with content blocking. Unfortunately most people just want something that works and doesn't have to be managed otherwise.

I don't have all the answers, hence why I'm just chatting about it, but there seems to be missing a middle ground somewhere is all.

19 Nov 2022 at 15:24 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
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