Gregory's ServerHere's how the "Ship of Theseus" page looked in July 2003 when it was first created! Since then, the article has been edited 1792 times. 0% of its original phrases remain.
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131 comments
   @sentinian @wikipedia a narrow vision. Is the language of the page the same? Are the underlying protocols of the internet? The optical nerves?  Has all of the pieces of the original article been repaired and recycled into a new article? ๐๐คทโโ๏ธ  @simonzerafa @wikipedia Yeah but there was one adjective left over. Typical.   @andrewt @simonzerafa @wikipedia no, at the time of you writing this, seeing it would be impossible as james somerton had been utterly destroyed by hbomberguy, or rather, his plagiarism, in which his only contributions are that he injected the hatred of women. @wikipedia Ah but the title, metadata, and database id is. Check and mate Wikipedia.  @freequaybuoy Then consider the following scenario: I own a boat. Over time, I've replaced every single part of the boat, from the sails to the hull, but it still has the same name (title), the same registration number in the Register of Shipping (database id), and the same overall measurements (metadata). By your own argument, it's still the same boat. @TerrorBite @freequaybuoy @wikipedia that actually appears to be how those centuries old wooden temples and other structures (at a minimum) in Japan work. @jmbreuer @TerrorBite @wikipedia See also the Great Mosque of Djennรฉ, which has had its adobe composition replaced many times, yet is still the Great Mosque of Djennรฉ.  @freequaybuoy what people fail to realise is that i have been collecting discarded ship parts, and can now build a second and extremely fucked up ship. @freequaybuoy @julienbidoret @wikipedia The title, metadata and id would be the same regardless of how many replacements or migrations there were.  @freequaybuoy @julienbidoret @wikipedia Just like the name โShip of Theseusโ (in Greek of course) remained the same with the original ship. @bhawthorne @julienbidoret @wikipedia Yeah! I think it comes down to agreement. The crew may have replaced all the parts but still sleep and sail on her. They may tell a merchant to load the spices on her, pointing to The Ship of Theseus and they would be none the wiser and agree that is indeed The Ship of Theseus. The knowledge that all parts have been replaced is metadata really, an outside text, requiring additional knowledge. Hence, "Truth is a community."  @wikipedia Ah, the curiosities of our time! I doubt previous generations felt the need to ponder such things, let alone had a word for the concept. (Wikipedia didn't even exist before this century.)  @basedave @0x10f @wikipedia You know the word irony is a concept from Ancient Greek right? @wackJackle @basedave @0x10f @wikipedia pretty sure irony predates them Ancient Greeks. Never heard of the Iron Age?? @secretgeek @wackJackle @basedave @0x10f @wikipedia Ah the good old Iron Age :-) Will history look back on us and call this the Moron Age? You know it's like rain on your wedding day, right? Or a free ride, when you've already paid? @wackJackle@norden.social @basedave@mstdn.social @0x10f@tech.lgbt @wikipedia@wikis.world      Where the original telos was to provide a means of seafaring transportation for Theseus, the telos then became to preserve the ship as an ends in itself. Thus the form of the ship became the new telos. In this way the replacement of material the was (con)forming to the new telos was in keeping with the original ship. What is interesting about the Ship of Theseus are the different Ends as they Reduce to a Single Disposition. One was intended for the transport of a heroic endeavor, another to memorialize this heroism. In this way it would seemingly reduce to the emulation of what is thought to be heroic for that society. I say this because were someone to change the toot, and by toot, I meant ship, it would arguably change the disposition of memory and its intended emulation. @Artivist I'm a materialist: is the ship's worldline free from interruptions and forks? @wikipedia It would be seen as symbol for the existing infrastructure set in by the Theseus regime, and so as from a materialist vantage forming a normative disposition to future endeavors. Lastly this speaks to positivistic evidence a la Borges' 'Tlรถn Uqbar and Orbis Tertius', or similarly via the Damnatio Memoriae under several Materialist Regimes, Stalin comes to mind. That they who control the 2nd Level Evidence control the 'Memory' to that Normative Disposition. Let's break it down another way. The way that you and your accomplices try and cover up the people that you murdered is done through the servers and the constellation of materialities comprising of discourse. Hence your link with the deputy gangs. The fact that you can then use the differentiated representations of digitized 'proof' then allows you to commit an act of erasure as social proof so that you can continue to torture and murder American Citizens.   @wikipedia I suspect that this was noticed before the article had completely removed all of the original text, motivating editors to look for synonyms that they could use to replace the remaining original words. So it's kind of a Ship of Thesaurus.  @wikipedia My employer uses ONE to ship a bunch of stuff and they have a literal ship of Theseus https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/details/9356701  @wikipedia  @wikipedia history is written by he or SHE or person beyond the binary who last edits ๐คช  @wikipedia@wikis.world @josh@phocks.eu.org I too, sometimes feel that zero percent of my original makeup exists. :(   @wikipedia careful! You could start an edit war when someone reinstates the original article saying that it is the true โShip of Theseusโ page  @wikipedia if AI replaced all human thought processing, then at what point would the historical information no longer be of human intelligence and of truth, now only AI data....and is it now the new dominant intelligence on earth (and beyond)?    @wikipedia whoever the Wikipedia PR person is, they deserve an attaboy/attagirl/attaX for this. ๐๐ค  @thiagocsf @wikipedia the bio says the account is community-run and maintained by four users who I think are admins, or at least two of them are  @wikipedia Well I think that answers that particular philosophical question.  @wikipedia exactly the same process occurs in the cells in the human body, continually changing and renewing. Are you still you? @juma_asterisco @wikipedia we probably all do, because once we return to the Earth, we may then become a tree. @peterbrown @wikipedia Germans become pears. Thanks to Theodor Fontane and "Herr von Ribbeck auf Ribbeck im Havelland" @Spyder @wikipedia I looked at the edit history to see if people were doing or had done this. It didn't look like it but could also be my inability to read it properly. @Spyder @wikipedia I saw the post about it now. I was not looking back to 2003, I was taking a much shorter view.  @wikipedia The modern version is exactly what would happen if (as some ppl demand) license plates on bicycles were introduced. When is it still the same bike? We have fixed that for cars, but with quite an effort.  @wikipedia I first learned of Ship of Theseus when looking up Trigger's Broom, from UK sitcom Only Fools and Horses. It had 17 new heads and 14 new handles.  @wikipedia How many atoms of our current molecules in our bodies were present at time T0 when we were born? And how many of the T0 atoms are still within our bodies? Also, does a river become a different river just because water keeps flowing in it?   @wikipedia @1HommeAzerty What about the lesser known โShip / Boat / Vessel / Barge / Gondola / Scow of Thesaurusโ? First of all, if the ship of Theseus had been built of iron, it would have rusted anyway, and that would have been irony irony. But more to the point, this is irony enough, in a world where facts and concepts are being rotted with anti-facts and anti-concepts, prompting the need to continually repair words and philosophies. @electricfox @wikipedia my computer was asking the same thing about the latest windows installation @wikipedia This is why Wikipedia is a great launching off-point, but a horrible source for citation in anything remotely journalistic or academic. I feel similarly about most 21st century dictionaries. No editions anymore -- just endlessly updated content.    @wikipedia Just realized that to Windows, my computer is a Ship of Theseus that still is fine with my license somehow even after changing the motherboard and CPU (switched to AMD) where the only original part is the power supply. (I knew but forgot it was a Ship of Theseus already, just never thought about the Windows license part). The practical application: The human body is made of cells, each of which has a useful period of operation no greater than several years at most, regardless of type or location. Over the course of an average human lifespan, every cell in your body will have been replaced concurrently by new cells at least six times. To end the entire Ship of Theseus stupidity, when did you cease being you? @wikipedia ah but the philosophical question has been replaced by Trigger's Broom. @wikipedia almost prophetic ๐  @wikipedia Can we unthank Andeggs for ruining this meme way back in 2006? lol  This is the very concept I once referred to arguing about the actual reusability (and price advantage predicted as consequence) of spaceships that apparently need a replacement of key components after each landing. โบ๏ธ๐โป๏ธ๐ค @oliver_schafeld I've used this to answer the question "can you suppress warnings about this specific instance of this bug in the future?" Fun fact for #infosec folks.   @wikipedia Same with an article in the German Wikipedia I had begun many years ago, using an even older article on my website. It's the article about the Interrupt Request (IRQ) in computers: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrupt  @wikipedia Theseus grows old. Over the years he loses friends, and makes new ones. He learns about himself and the world he lives in. He has kids. He loses his wife, not terribly young but still much too soon. He takes up dancing. At the age of 64 he dies peacefully, surrounded by his children. Is Theseus still the same man who bought the boat, all those years ago?  |
@wikipedia And yet, the Ship of Theseus page remains, thus proving a bird in the hand is worth two stitches in time.