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At a time when The EU is seeking to cut FOSS funding to funds like @NGIZero Perhaps we need to ask the EU to fund smaller, more communal projects, rather than seeking to create Unicorns. "The report highlighted how 30% of EU startup businesses that had grown to be valued at more than €1bn – known as unicorns – had moved abroad, and mostly to list on stock markets in the US." https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/sep/09/eu-mario-draghi-report-spending-boost 53 comments
A small amount really. Like surely like the EU could find more change down the back of the couch. @wendyg @thisismissem @EC_NGI The amount that NGI has invested in Open Source Projects. @onepict @thisismissem @EC_NGI Compared to what we got out of it collectively, that's incredibly cheap. @wendyg @thisismissem Like so many of us are really cheap. But the work that @NGIZero supports is amazing, so many projects. Lot of us still in an early stage. But through it folks like me and MissEm get a bit of funding. @onepict @wendyg @thisismissem @NGIZero "So many of us are really cheap" made me lol so badly. Because, yes. Compared to the amount of tax money we give out to MS and AMZ, we are incredibly effective with little money. @evilham @wendyg @thisismissem @NGIZero We're spread out across Europe, not all of us live in big cities. Some of us work in remote areas, online. At a time when the EU was pondering how to stop the depopulation of areas due to brain drain, what we do seems like it could be a part of the solution. Not as attractive as big 🦄 or 🦓. @onepict @evilham @thisismissem @NGIZero When I said "we" I meant everyone - the economy built on FOSS benefits all of society. Cheap even at a bigger price! @onepict @wendyg @thisismissem @NGIZero precisely this XD  I hate that things work this way, but a big epiphany I had when dealing even a little bit with budgetary bureaucracy is that you absolutely can scupper efforts by asking for too little. @rriemann @wendyg @thisismissem @EC_NGI I think that's what @NGICommons is meant to be for? I don't know if anyone has measured it.  @onepict @rriemann @wendyg @thisismissem @EC_NGI @NGICommons This study has been pretty widely cited: tl;dr all of FOSS is "worth" 8.8 Trillion It doesn't quite answer the question but the methodology mght be useful. @ansuz @rriemann @wendyg @thisismissem Wow we really are cheap dates. @onepict @rriemann @wendyg @thisismissem particularly when you look at the numbers for the 2025 budget and see that more money will go into "AI-genAI / Data / Robotics" than went into the entire lifetime of NGI, with none of the open-source requirements that NLnet mandates. My article on the topic has a table with the summed up values and percentages per-category: @ansuz @rriemann @wendyg @thisismissem nice article. You've been very through. My other concern with EU funding is the centralisation of that. I've looked at getonepass.eu. It's awful to use. Some cascade funding is on there, but so far the open calls are not relevant. It's so not geared towards the grassroots funds. I much prefer NLNets process. @onepict thanks! maybe too thorough 😅 I suppose we'll have to wait and see if any of the time that went into writing it makes a difference. I'm hopeful but not holding my breath One way you can let the EU know that you'd like more funding into the FOSS Grassroots which includes several Fediverse Projects, is to fill in the consultation that @fsfe has written about and has a guide on how to fill it in. The deadline is September 20th.  @onepict @NGIZero A better question is: do we want critical funding for a large number of free software projects to be subject to the whims of the European Commission, who are not directly elected by citizens and whom our adversaries have much more sway over? I think it should be national governments paying into a consortium that we control, diversifying the fund; national government is more accountable. NGI is great but the EC is a huge single point of failure, and the EU has been fracturing. @onepict @NGIZero Until something better exists, I would suggest that NGI funding must continue for the forseeable future, but I always have in mind the fact that citizens do not control the Commission. The reason the Commission created NGI was because of our lobbying and due to geopolitical instability around the world, so they want Europe to be more self-sufficient; their reasoning has nothing to do with actual software freedom even if we benefit from NGI in the meantime. NGI is a liability. @libreleah @NGIZero I'm not sure. We've seen issues recently with #innovateuk and the shenanigans with the Womens Innovation funding. UK funding for FOSS grassroots is pretty thin on the ground. Although @nlnet is pretty good at managing other non EU Funds. So perhaps more NLNet like funding bodies, spread out. @onepict @NGIZero @nlnet NLnet is great, and they've existed since the 90s if I'm not mistaken. I would argue for the creation of a body similar in concept to, say, the W3C, but geared to free software, open source hardware and right to repair. Member-led, fully democratic and transparent. What NGI actually does is amazing but we can't trust the Commission. The fact that NGI isn't on Horizon 2025's budget proves this fact even if it's later added to the budget; the EC can still cancel it later. @libreleah I think there's a lot of us in FLOSS who are feeling the lack of an organisation that does represent us. I used to hope OPENUK could be that for UK folks in the EU. The OSI and FSF are for a different purpose entirely. I want an organisation that does represent Human Rights and consumer rights like the right to repair. I want more local decentralised organisations that could link in with right to repair cafes and hackerspaces. I want the focus on community not AI. @libreleah we can repair, create code and hardware. But we need to eat and we also want other folks to link up with us. To outreach as well as fund. @onepict See, prior to NGI, my guess is that a lot of people just didn't think they deserved better; what we had was all that there would ever be. Enter NGI. Everyone thinks it's so amazing, all that money coming in, a lot of cool shit gets made. Then NGI goes away, but it's too late: we know what we're missing. We're losing something, instead of never having it. I'm basically hoping NGI isn't restored, for this reason. It will force us to help ourselves, and we'll probably be better for it. @libreleah perhaps, although the amount of folks who've idolised Bill Gates and Elon Musk and think the way to get investment is to attract their attention isn't zero. We do deserve better and it's why I've often thought that universal basic income, education, transport and healthcare would be better for Foss sustainability. https://onepict.com/20240409-sustain.html Although the way libreboot is funded is awesome. Both for funding the development and reusing equipment. @onepict Libreboot's funding model is uncommon in FOSS; I run my own business selling it on hardware, at a relatively high profit margin, on limited hours (I don't work full-time but I make fulltime wage). When I need more money, I just drop my prices a bit and go on a marketing blitz or idk do a Libreboot release to shore up the numbers. I'm also the BDFL of the Libreboot project; 100% of the spending of it comes from my own pocket, and I do a lot of work myself. It's a small project though. @libreleah I was looking on your website recently, I was glad to see you've worked out the kinks shipping to Europe with the customs. I really do like the range of lenovos you get and refurbish. @onepict I wouldn't say that this is possible with a lot of projects though. A lot of free software projects do not have an intrinsic financial value, and can't be monetized, but are still essential. For example, libpng is used everywhere but do you see libpng being shrink-wrapped and sold to paying customers, and do you see libpng adverts on Google ads? No, and you don't see reviews of it. It's like that Guy from Nebraska meme: https://xkcd.com/2347/ NGI is for Nebraska guy, not Libreboot. @libreleah it's where we all as small projects need to be talking about this. @onepict I would agree with you that a negative income tax, also known as universal basic income, would be an effective means of funding free software. It would facilitate all kinds of creativity by allowing otherwise intelligent and passionate people to fully use their skill to work on many new projects of social and scientific benefit. The economics are solid; if more people can start businesses, GDP goes up and the size of the state as a percentage will decrease over time (i.e. lower taxes). @onepict 40 million adults of working age in UK * £18,000 per year (elderly already get state pension): £720 billion Taper it, like how universal credit (welfare system in the UK) already works; as people start earning more, their UBI reduces. Given current median wages, and expected wage growth, you could probably knock the UBI bill to ~150 billion. Universal credit already exists; make it opt-out instead of opt-in. Auto-enroll everyone. The infrastructure for UBI already exists, in the UK.  @libreleah @onepict no need to taper when you have income tax (or that already does the tapering if you prefer). That takes any means testing out of it. @onepict 150billion if wages go up a lot. Otherwise I'd say UBI would probably cost about 200-250 billion annually at first, in the UK. For reference, current government income is about £1 trillion. Some taxes would go up at first, but we can expect more people would start businesses if they have more time / less stress due to the support. So GDP goes up. The rest of the money can be found be increasing productivity in the public sector, especially healthcare. UBI is quite feasible in the UK. @onepict I mention healthcare because it's a huge percentage of government spending, in fact it's even been on the news recently. With UBI, more people would live at a higher standard, especially in terms of diet and exercise, which would result in fewer illnesses in the first place. You could probably implement UBI without even increasing taxes at all, if I'm being honest, but any such rises would be temporary; a lot of people already get certain benefits anyway (in-work e.g. child tax credit) @onepict It would probably increase productivity in most workforces too, especially ones with lots of people on low wage. if you're no longer stressed about money, you can focus on your job better, whatever job that is. so like, i think 200billion per year is a reasonable figure as to how much UBI would cost in practise, but even then you would probably phase it in; some people get it first and gradually everyone does. the cost quickly becomes structural in nature. just more efficient welfare. @onepict So the question is either: How can we afford it, or how can we not afford it? Scrimp on a few other budgets and reduce waste in a lot of other areas to all but cover the cost. Don't forget many people already get welfare hence 780 billion becoming more like 150 billion. The cost of administration in welfare would also reduce quite dramatically, if it's automatic; no more DWP assessments. Most people are on PAYE too so the government knows how much money you make. UBI can be automated.  @onepict @libreleah @Edent @libreleah Well I'm in the EU now. But I'm sure there are many UK FOSS folks who have some ideas. 😊 I think if @openuk can influence UK Policy more so that there could be a UK equivalent to the Sovereign Tech Fund, that would be a huge boost for FOSS in the UK, and home grown innovation. @FediThing @libreleah This is where we need some of our next generation of younger folks to start considering politics. Not just elected folks, but their staff .  @onepict @NGIZero Literally what I told them to their faces at the parliament (for all the good it did): https://ar.al/2019/11/29/the-future-of-internet-regulation-at-the-european-parliament/ So, yes, this, 💯 @aspensmonster @onepict @NGIZero And, just to stress, “open source” doesn’t cut the mustard. If the openness is not protected via “share alike” licensing (AGPL, etc.) then we’re talking about privatisation, where code created from the commons can be enclosed by corporations. The FSF in Europe doesn’t currently make this distinction (and has its own issues, just like the US one does in other areas).  Can the EU parliament even amend the legislation it's considering? I was under the impression that it can only approve or reject whatever the Commission hands it. If the Commission are the only ones that get a say in the wording they are the ones that need to be convinced. @InsertUser @onepict @NGIZero It can amend it (and the council can choose to reject the amendments) as well as approve or reject it over several readings/back-and-forths. What it cannot do – and what essentially renders it somewhat of a toy parliament compared to other parliaments – is to propose new legislation. |
Gregory's Server
@onepict I've love to know how many billions the EU has nurtured in the economy built by FOSS projects - OpenStreetMap, Linux, Raspberry Pi, the Web...