Gregory's ServerAs a Blind person i never thought i would be on social media savoring photos. But the communal Mastodon alt text game is so strong that sweet, poetic or silly descriptions abound on my timeline. Thanks to legions of people who take time to write a meaningful description of the ephemera they post, i learn so much about insects, plants, buildings, memes — all dispatches from a dimension of the world that i otherwise wouldn't experience. If you're wondering whether anybody reads these things: YES.
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 @ChanceyFleet Thanks for letting us know. I will be more diligent about captioning my photos going forward.  Yes, I'm really glad I got into the habit, and this encourages me to carry it on with greater gusto! @ChanceyFleet@mas.to sorry for poor phrasing, kinda dont know the inclusive nomenclature yet, but what type of blindness do you have? Do you see at all, or do you have some big vision imparment? If you dont mind me asking obviously, am just curious ^^ @ChanceyFleet I'm thrilled to know you/someone who needs the alt text gets it. Happy to brighten your day! (Smiley face) @ChanceyFleet I *have* wondered, and really appreciate your sharing this! (And I’m sure I’m not the only one who’s now going to have you in mind when composing ALT image descriptions! 😊) You should check out #BloomScrolling when you have a minute! Really great hashtag containing plants and the majority of pictures have #AltText @ChanceyFleet  @ChanceyFleet In an instance of the road cut effect, I, a sighted person, like captions on Mastodon because they highlight the parts that the poster thought important, and what they want to draw attention to.  @arensb @ChanceyFleet I write them as captions for everyone but have to remind myself to describe the picture as well, not just what I think is important about it. Sometimes the descriptions involve colors and objects (a blue and black kite in a partially cloudy sky) but I remInd myself that not all seeing impaired people were born blind. I do my best.  @arensb @ChanceyFleet i also personally like it despite having perfect vision because my internet is complete trash sometimes and alt text is the only way i can view images at times  @arensb @ChanceyFleet it often helps me understand jokes and cultural references too. Like if a character is saying something funny, but I don't know where they're from, the caption often explains it so I can learn more about the reference :)  @ChanceyFleet  @bjb @ChanceyFleet I'm doing my best to write alt text for everything. It can be difficult. I hope I get better at it but I feel like I either write too much or not enough. @bjb @ChanceyFleet me too, I also enjoy writing it as I see it as a way to slow down and further reflect on and enjoy the images I choose to share. It's so lovely to know they are making a difference.  @bjb @ChanceyFleet Me too, especially because I like to use a Palm Pilot to download my timeline and read offline. Without images obviously.      @ChanceyFleet On the same vein, please don't pass vile comments for those of us too lazy to write down alt-texts. It's not because we don't care. I personally try my best but understand that some of us are just not creative with words, or English isn't our first language or we don't want to wrack our brain writing it down. In a nutshell, "Words don't come easy for some of us". Thanks for sharing this. If I may ask, can you share how alt text for videos would work best for you? If they are videos of say a talking head into the camera and the text is already subbed, it feels redundant to have it again. It might not be relevant to the message to describe the person delivering it but would that make a difference to you? @chu I’m still wrapping my head around this. If the text is subd, can the screen reader read it? The presenter’s image is probably relevant — i do want to know if they have pink hair or a good outfit I had assumed the screen readers could read the text, but I honestly don't know how it works. I'm happy to know that you are interested if the presenter has pink hair or big glasses. I will try to include this kind of information. Thanks! @chu It's a weird ambiguity now. On Youtube or other streaming services we can have subtitles spoken or brailled so what remains as a challenge is image description @chu @ChanceyFleet A good term to look up for that would be Audio Description. When a video is audio described, there is usually a second audio track you can choose where visual information is also described. Its interesting to know that subtitles can be spoken on YouTube, so if there are multiple languages in a video it could still be accessible?  On the rare occasion I post an image, I do try to write alt text that's both descriptive and a bit whimsical. I hope someone sees and likes it! @ChanceyFleet Thank you, so glad to know alt text helps! @ChanceyFleet - Here's a dragonfly I spotted and caught a good image of. My description alt text is nowhere near as awesome as the real thing, but I tried. @ChanceyFleet What kind of text description do you prefer? @ChanceyFleet Thank you for sharing this! I don't share often, but when I do, I try to write useful alt-text for the images I include. I have wondered if it really matters, but I am so glad to hear that it does!   @ChanceyFleet Oh that's so cool to hear. I'm impaired, but not blind, and I get so angry when something I want to understand has no alt-text. I get, well, sullen, and yeah, resentful. I am glad that it seems strong to you. I hope it keeps getting stronger. @ChanceyFleet I glad it helps, I try and do it for my pictures. However, I never see alt-text whenever I click the marker. I may have my settings wrong in that case. @ChanceyFleet does it tell you it's a photo description first? Or does the alt text just flow into the text to speech? @rodbotic I suppose it could vary by screenreader (there are different brands, on different platforms), but in this example it reads the alt text, then says "image" when there's an image with alt text defined.  @ChanceyFleet This toot should be a part of some sort of Mastodon starter pack, to share the culture and incentivize newcomers. Thank you for sharing your appreciation!  @ChanceyFleet Even for me, with mostly good eyesight (aside from needing strong glasses/contacts), the alt text is helpful to provide context on what details of the image are relevant to the post.  @ChanceyFleet @ChanceyFleet Wow. I'll make sure to caption all my pictures from now on. I really thought nobody was paying attention to that. @porreeundlauch @ChanceyFleet Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts. As someone, who doesn't need ALT-text for a picture, I was always unsure, whether my describing is useful or not to a person, who is in need of it. I simply can't say. Sadly, until now, I had no feedback at all, to advance my attempts to describe a picture of mine. @ChanceyFleet Thanks for sharing this. There's way too much negativity and hardness around image descriptions. This kind of feedback is very encouraging. @ChanceyFleet 😍 @RagnaJa I use AI apps to gain access to visual info when alt text is absent and IRL, but humans are better at mood, nuance, observation and poetics. When possible, people should write their own alt text, even if they might use AI to identify a starting point for a description. @ChanceyFleet thanks! And yes, I agree. I miss the personality of the poster in an artificially created alt text.  @ChanceyFleet@mas.to does mastodon have a feature that warns you if you don't put alt text? i know that sharkey does  @ChanceyFleet I always try to caption every image I post in as much detail as makes sense. Explaining memes can be a doozy though, but I still try. @ChanceyFleet  @ChanceyFleet Thank You for this encouragement! I always try to type Alt text, which often takes more time than writing several comments would, and I often asked myself, is it worth the effort? @ChanceyFleet this is the most beautiful thing I've read today. I'm so thrilled and excited at how much more equitable Mastodon and federated services evolve thanks to the nature of the people that use it. @ChanceyFleet @romanalanwrites Ditto this poster. I love photography as a #blind person.  @musicalmara @ChanceyFleet @romanalanwrites also as someone legally blind with significant usable vision who does photography fedi has been the least toxic space i have ever shared my photography   @ChanceyFleet @Ruraliedesfleurs @ChanceyFleet J’essaie de le mettre en français Et en anglais (merci DeepL !) @ChanceyFleet I don't need the alt texts, still read them occasionally. They may hold further information on what to look for, or give some background on what the photographer set his Fokus on.  @ChanceyFleet I really like doing them, but i LOVE reading this, butterflies in belly and all, it’s great to know it makes a difference.  I was TOTALLY wondering, and thank you so much for sharing that it lands in a good way. I try to be informative and fun with that space, and you've given me even more motivation to excel there. Some Qs: What about emojis, do they get translated? Also, is it true that the e-readers "see" capital letters, which helps the technology translate things like hashtags better? Thanks for any and all input! 🥰 @ChanceyFleet THAT's the way to encourage writing alt-text, way better than complaining if somebody doesn't @ChanceyFleet cool I did one for a window view a week ago I'll have to start remembering to do it more often.  @ChanceyFleet I am now so impressed that other people make their texts sweet, poetic or silly and will try to up my alt game *half embarrassed/half sweet, poetic and silly laugh*  @ChanceyFleet It really helps that Mastodon shows the alt texts prominently. I love reading them which motivates me to write alt texts myself. On Twitter I never knew if anyone would even notice the alt texts.  @truh @ChanceyFleet I use Mastodon on Android, and don't know how to view the alt text. I always see what looks like a little "Alt" button overplayed on images, bit it's not clickable - it just pops up the underlying image. What am I missing? How does one read the alts? @jack @ChanceyFleet Huh, maybe it's just a Tusky thing that it shows the alt texts prominently.   @ChanceyFleet made it a habit since I joined this club. Always in English though I'm dutch to allow for broader public (most Dutch people understand English). Forces me to think about descriptive language and how to put across what I filmed or photographed. So, nice to read your complimentary toot @ChanceyFleet This is so wholesome! I'm happy that those couple minutes of thinking about what to write in alt text matter. @ChanceyFleet I mainly post gifs of my pixel art game, but I never now what to put on these descriptions. I usually try to describe the action but don't know if I should write more (colors, luminosity...) @ChanceyFleet @ChanceyFleet I try my best! Sometimes descriptions are hard or I'm tired, but I'll try to ensure there's something that is at least entertaining or moderately descriptive on everything I post 😄 @ChanceyFleet I am happy to read that alt text helps indeed. Your testimony gives good reasons to go on writing them. Take care.  @ChanceyFleet I enjoy writing alt text on here because I know people care! In a certain way, what I write in the description tells how I see the picture, what captures me the most, something no EXIF data could ever explain. If only Mastodon could offer translation for alt text too (I mostly write in Italian)…  @ChanceyFleet I always read the alt-text too. Despite being able to see just fine (as long as my glasses are on, or if my device is close enough to my face), the additional context is greatly appreciated.  @ChanceyFleet i try my best to at least explain what the image means when i cannot describe properly, or cw what i haven't put alt text! i am happy you're enjoying your time here ❤️
@ChanceyFleet sorry, even if I don't know you, and even if you don't follow me, for never putting descriptive text in the images
LB there's a lot that's wrong with the fediverse but one of the things I'm proudest of is how we've cultivated this alt-text culture. I don't know many people on here who _don't_ follow the "no alt text, no boost" rule. We may have alt-text discourse every year or two but for the most part this seems like one of the very few things that almost everyone here agrees on @ChanceyFleet I've started using AI to write the captions (pretty much the only thing I use it for). Do you think it will become the norm for speech readers to automatically use AI to create alt text for images that lack it?  @RoyReed @ChanceyFleet FYI, I work for the Flickr Foundation and we've been looking into AI for writing "added text descriptions" for images in Flickr Commons that may not have any description at all. It's surprising how good some of the descriptions are. We still haven't decided what to actually do with it (Flickr doesn't have an actual alt text capability) but I went in skeptical and now have an "It's a lot better than nothing" feeling. @RoyReed @jessamyn Simultaneously far better than nothing, and a threat to human-created alt text. AI descriptions tend to use very normcore, Halmark-esque language. Every photo with a puppy is heartwarming, every photo with a couch is cozy. I fear that institutions will adopt AI descriptions as a perceived time-saver, and the gains we’ve made in human alt text literacy will be wiped out. @ChanceyFleet @RoyReed I, too, am concerned about this iterative effect (i.e. models getting trained on themselves) so we're definitely in favor (I am anyway) of making sure there are human checks. I mean I don't get to build any of this, but I have some oversight into how things might be built. I think our concern is: given that we have some institutions which have no image descriptions, what is the best way to get more description in there? I do take all of your points, they are good ones. @RoyReed @jessamyn It’s a conundrum. Most institutions and platforms have so much legacy content that needs alt text, and accessibility teams aren’t resourced enough to do it in house. I’ve heard of crowd-volunteering efforts, which seems like a good thing, and there are also companies like Scribely that will write alt text as a B2B service. At a minimum, a human in the loop is necessary to make sure misleading or plain wrong description doesn’t get published. @ChanceyFleet @jessamyn Yes, I agree about the sentimentality of some of the suggestions. I do edit what AI proposes, but I do find it a useful starting point. @jessamyn @RoyReed I use AI description a lot most recently to learn that a discarded mattress on the sidewalk was what it was, without having to touch it. I think that generally it’s best if descriptive AI is used at an individual’s discretion, not at scale. This way, individual users can choose a model, refine their prompts and have their preferences reflected in custom description, and meanwhile nobody is invited to outsource institutional descriptions to a bot.  Hello. As a blind person, how do you work with your phone? I am not blind but I am asking because I have idea of a cheap FOSS based mobile phone for users who can't read/write or are blind. The idea came when I saw my grandma can't work with regular phones. She can't read or write thanks to many stupid religious beliefs back in her time. When I told her about my idea, she became so happy. 1/2 Now thanks to #Mozilla #CommonVoice we've got so much speech data even in #Persian which is my mother tongue. Let alone #English and other western languages. The idea is utilizing some speech based #MachineLearning techniques so that the user can operate the phone using voice instead of buttons. @farooqkz That sounds great for some users, blind or not, who prefer simplicity. It wouldn’t be my preference since I prefer to interact by typing (QWERTY or Braille), and I only use dictation sparingly. @farooqkz A screen reader, called Voiceover, speaks onscreen items selectively and efficiently. There is a screen reader built into every major operating system. Seniors who lose their vision often need one-on-one support to learn a screen reader, but once they learn, it’s very powerful. There are simpler phones like the Blindshell for folks who would rather not use touchscreens. @ChanceyFleet What do I have to do so that you can "see" my pictures? I've had my share of vision problems so I know some of what you experience. And I'd love to do what I can.   @ChanceyFleet I never quite know what to say, especially given photography is one of my hobbies and a frequent subject of my posts. Thank you for sharing your perspective.  @ChanceyFleet if anyone discovers the terrible puns I hide in some of my alt text, my game will be up. @ChanceyFleet this is so wholesome! Would it be ok if I shared this on Time for Kindness? It's a website and social media accounts which share stories of kindness to show that there is a lot of it already happening in the world. You can find out more about them on their website here: @ChanceyFleet May I ask you something? I'm never sure how to describe the photos I post. If we take a picture from a sunset behind some hills for example, what are the important informations for you? @spookie Whatever you think is striking about it … how would you describe it to a friend in a letter, if you didn’t have a camera? For social media, descriptions should be short - a sentence or two usually. @ChanceyFleet Well, I would, next to others, describe colors. Because they are most of the time the reason I take pictures of a sunset. But I have no idea, if this is useful. @ChanceyFleet going to link this to anyone who doesn’t add alt text to their images! So wholesome, glad this community is able to help and entertain you 🩷 @ChanceyFleet Really nice to hear this, I try hard to have descriptions for all my media posts, and it seems on our server we have a pretty decent alt text % for posts, though sometimes I don't know what to focus on.  @ChanceyFleet this will make me put alt texts in everything, I was really slacking with those. Would be nice if AI could be used to automate or at least support with something useful like this. @ChanceyFleet I have really poor vision. I’ve worn glasses since I was 13mo old. First surgery was 17mo. Last one about 9. That was all they could do for me. Now in my 40s I am having a hard time getting a new prescription for reading and distance. @ChanceyFleet Actually the same prescription is more blurry than my current and I have to go to a specialist. But one thing I have been extremely grateful for is that although I have bad vision (and some joke about me being blind) still I can see. And not everyone can. I would be devastated if I lost my eyesight or my hearing (which isn’t good either - well I have central auditory processing disorder and wear hearing aids and yes it helps but it’s not perfect). @ChanceyFleet best wishes! I usually put alt text up but there are a few exceptions. Glad it helps you out. As someone who can see but not see well I have always pondered how useful it is. And yet now I think about it I’VE ALSO had to use them before! I am not sure if I could truly appreciate an image with JUST alt text but that’s from a perspective of being able to see. But this realisation is really amazing. Maybe I need to update my websites too. Thanks for the confirmation/reminder! @ChanceyFleet For detailed and artistic descriptions of amazing landscape photos, I highly recommend @SilverRainbow  @ChanceyFleet Thanks again for reminding, I was 129% sure no one reads *my* photo descriptions, even if I make them @wonderfox and you, nya for boosting cool stuff all the time @ChanceyFleet Anything you specifically like or dislike or miss when reading ALT texts? I'm never sure what might be of interest to a blind person.  @ChanceyFleet Happy to provide alt text for my images. BTW, I also push for accessibility at my workplace, and make sure all our reports are accessible to everyone. I wish everyone would realize how much that matters to those have visual or other impairments.  |
@ChanceyFleet
So glad to be a part of that sharing.