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Carolyn

@lio @internetarchive Libraries buy books.

If an author gives consent, great; if the author isn't asked for consent, it is theft.

19 comments
Lionir

@CStamp @internetarchive My local public libraries tend to accept book donations. I'm not sure if they generally ask authors or publishers. I was generally under the impression that libraries just bought books the same way as everyone else did.

That said, I've just learned that in Canada, we pay for lending rights on an annual basis (publiclendingright.ca/) though this appears to be done a country-wide level rather than the local-level.

I'm ignorant on the subject, that's my bad.

AskPippa🇨🇦

@lio @CStamp @internetarchive Generally libraries (at last in parts of Canada) pay a bit extra for books so the author can get at least a bit of compensation to make up for fewer sales of the books. Authors spend months or years working a book -- they need to get compensation for at least some of that time. Royalties don't bring in much for most authors, so when digital copies are stolen, it really hurts the creators/authors.
Not that many books in libraries are donated -- many donated ones aren't wanted.

KerryH

@lio @CStamp There's a Public Lending Right in NZ too. 1,884 NZ writers/editors/illustrators registered to receive payments through it last year, totalling $2.4 million - so the public library system is doing its bit to support the NZ book scene.

Johan Sköld

@CStamp @lio @internetarchive You must have missed how the IA library works. Quoting the blog post:

> We purchase and acquire books—yes, physical, paper books—and make them available for one person at a time to check out and read online.

random thoughts

@rhoot @CStamp @lio @internetarchive

The problem is, IA "Library" broke this role intentionally, which caused the lawsuit.

Carolyn

@hittitezombie @rhoot @lio @internetarchive They need to actually have an agreement with the copyright owners. "The original lawsuit was filed by the publishers in June 2020 and argued that the Internet Archive had digitized “millions of print books and [distributed] the resulting bootleg ebooks free of charge from its site, without the consent of the publishers and their authors or the payment of any license fee.”"

random thoughts

@CStamp @rhoot @lio @internetarchive

Hachette sued IA when IA started distributing scanned content in an unlimited way, essentially providing online piracy, under the name "National Emergency Library".

They were not sued or threathened before this point.

random thoughts

@CStamp @rhoot @lio @internetarchive

Finally this "500k books banned" malarkey is an outcome of an agreed negotiation. If IA didn't agree on this, they could continue litigation.

Markus Göllnitz

@CStamp @lio @internetarchive That is *not* a difference, though?
The Internet Archive does exactly the same: buys a book, and lends it to one person at a time. The only difference is: They digitised it, at their own expense. They are also using DRM technology to make sure it isn't copied. Adobe DRM is basically the "industry standard" DRM for selling e-books as well.
Calling this uncontrolled redistribution or even theft is not even close to reality.

Matija Nalis

@CStamp
two important points - "theft" would be depriving original owner of the possesion of the book, which this isn't - so it cannot possibly be called "theft" any more than it could be "murder". Secondly, in cases where consent is needed (jurisdiction dependant!), it is asked of copyright owner, NOT of the author (two two are very rarely the same -- the copyright owner is usually some megacoorp which takes all the money and leaves only crumbs, if that, to the author)
@lio @internetarchive

Carolyn

@mnalis @lio @internetarchive You sound like a tech bro justifying sucking in work of others for AI. Authors depend on sales of their books. If some random person decides to buy one book, scan it, then make it avail be for many others, that is theft, however you want to do mental gymnastics to justify it.

Matija Nalis

@CStamp @lio @internetarchive You keep using that word "theft". I don't think it means what you think it means. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft

If you think something is copyright infringement, then please say that instead (and if possible provide references why you think so). For example, in my little part of the world (#Croatia in #EU), the right of public libraries is enshrined in #Copyright law and does not require any consent of the copyright holders (much less authors). 1/n

Carolyn

@mnalis @lio @internetarchive It is stealing someone's livelihood to take a book, scan it, then make it available to masses of people.

Matija Nalis

@CStamp @lio @internetarchive
Are you aware of the concept of Public Libraries? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_l ? It would seem to me that you either are not aware, or are totally opposed to their existence for some reason? Are you aware that they are part of authors incomes?

Matija Nalis

@CStamp @lio @internetarchive

Any yes, we are taxed for that privilege, and those taxes are supposedly being used to support the said artists. I don't know the situation in Internet Archives jurisdiction, but would like to learn -- without being called names. (and if possible, by someone knowledgeable providing links to back up their claims. If you're interested in my references for #Croatia it's at zakon.hr/z/106/Zakon-o-autorsk ÄŤlanak 34.) 2/2

Matija Nalis

@CStamp
but more to your point "Libraries buy books" -- so does Internet Archive. Copying from the link: "We purchase and acquire books—yes, physical, paper books—and make them available for one person at a time to check out and read online." -- so just like your regular local library works.
@lio @internetarchive

Carolyn

@mnalis @lio @internetarchive Well, that lawsuit specifically mentions no consent.

roens

@CStamp @lio @internetarchive
Do you feel that a book should be a single-use, single-owner object? Libraries (including IA) transfer books between each other.

Every book in library circulation was bought, not stolen.

roens

@CStamp @lio @internetarchive
And every book that IA holds which could be in copyright is loaned, just the same as libraries of physical books do. And every such book IA makes available for loan, they have a physical copy of in storage. They are not proliferating digital copies of books.

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