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Dr. Quadragon ❌

One issue I have with fighting systems in almost all RPGs (most games, actually) is that every fight must be until either you or your adversary kicks the bucket.

You stole a piece of meat at a bazaar and got caught? No, you don't just get beaten up and thrown in jail or out of town, you will be straight executed on sight.

Conversely, you mishappened upon a gang of less than friendly ruffians? No, they won't beg or surrender or run away when it becomes clear that it's them who mishappened upon you, they will fight to the bitter end, as if under the order from the supreme god of everything to either murderize your ass, or die trying.

It's not plausible. Vast majority of fights are not like that. Most of the confrontations involving force end with either running or talking. Not a lot of people want to get murdered or be a murderer, especially over things that don't matter much.

15 May at 11:08 | Open on mastodon.ml
11 comments
Leonard Ritter

@drq yep. even with animals. but ive also seen positive examples.

15 May at 11:13 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
BigFoxBoss

@drq
> You stole a piece of meat at a bazaar and got caught? No, you don't just get beaten up and thrown in jail or out of town, you will be straight executed on sight.

youtube.com/watch?v=_XR6dsy7AT

15 May at 11:22 | Open on masturbated.one
Тр3тий Сергеевич

@drq I might add that the player characters seem to be only ones who are able to flee the battle.

And while I agree with you on the forcefulness of encounters, there are many cases that handles the conflict from the angle other than "kill or be killed".

In Elder Scrolls games, guards offer you to pay the fine/do the time in response to your transgressions. The "public execution" option is invoked by the your choice.

In HoMM III, if your army is strong enough, map mobs will resort to escape (unless you really want to fight them).

@drq I might add that the player characters seem to be only ones who are able to flee the battle.

And while I agree with you on the forcefulness of encounters, there are many cases that handles the conflict from the angle other than "kill or be killed".

In Elder Scrolls games, guards offer you to pay the fine/do the time in response to your transgressions. The "public execution" option is invoked by the your choice.

15 May at 11:30 | Open on mastodon.ml
D:\side\

@drq and the bucket gets a kick out of this!

15 May at 12:15 | Open on mastodon.ml
Александр

@drq In some games (e.g. Fallout 1/2) enemies sometimes flee. But yes, it is rare.

I think it is done intentionally though. In most gaming situations it is perceived as super annoying because the player wants their loot or at least revenge. Fleeing enemies provide less dopamine.

Games are less fun when they realistic in wrong ways.

15 May at 12:40 | Open on friends.deko.cloud
Dr. Quadragon ❌

@shuro Original Fallout was brilliant in so many ways, including this one.

> the player wants their loot or at least revenge. Fleeing enemies provide less dopamine

As I said, ideally, enemies could drop and lose some loot while fleeing, and you should be able to give a chase, but it's on you whether you want to bother and live with possible consequences moving forward or not.

Most of the loot dropped in random encounters is just crap anyway, especially later in the game, as expected of raiders and highwaymen. Unless you're walking around in the vicinity of some high-tech faction, of course.

@shuro Original Fallout was brilliant in so many ways, including this one.

> the player wants their loot or at least revenge. Fleeing enemies provide less dopamine

As I said, ideally, enemies could drop and lose some loot while fleeing, and you should be able to give a chase, but it's on you whether you want to bother and live with possible consequences moving forward or not.

15 May at 12:59 | Open on mastodon.ml
Александр

@drq I think quite often the loot is the problem. In many games the player is expected to loot. Also the player is expected to survive many encounters and this makes the player different from NPCs.

I mean the player has to survive ALL hostile NPCs in the game.

When you think about this situation it turns out that the player can't afford not to loot in many games. You meet a band of raiders in the wasteland, shootout happens and then they scatter. Maybe you'll catch one afterwards and the rest escape. You are spent resources and didn't get much. A few more encounters like that and you'll be drained.

In the real life you are equal to "NPCs" and you don't realistically expect to keep single-handedly surviving fight after fight.

So it is not just combat, it is the games themselves that will have to be changed. The question if people will like them like that :)

@drq I think quite often the loot is the problem. In many games the player is expected to loot. Also the player is expected to survive many encounters and this makes the player different from NPCs.

I mean the player has to survive ALL hostile NPCs in the game.

When you think about this situation it turns out that the player can't afford not to loot in many games. You meet a band of raiders in the wasteland, shootout happens and then they scatter. Maybe you'll catch one afterwards and the rest escape....

15 May at 14:21 | Open on friends.deko.cloud
Dr. Quadragon ❌

@shuro

> You spent resources and didn't get much.

Shootouts are actually kinda expensive and risky for everyone, yeah, especially in the nuclear wasteland, where everyone is short on stuff in general, and you are one mishap away from dying to untreated wounds (by the way, originally stimpaks were kinda like panthenol on steroids - great for rashes, cuts, scratches, burns and flesh wounds, but did jack shit to heavy injury like broken bodyparts - you needed medical attention from an actual fucking doctor instead) or to thermal shock, or to dehydration or starving to death. So it's in your best interest not to get into one, at least if you don't know what you're doing. Basic Sun Tzu stuff.

@shuro

> You spent resources and didn't get much.

Shootouts are actually kinda expensive and risky for everyone, yeah, especially in the nuclear wasteland, where everyone is short on stuff in general, and you are one mishap away from dying to untreated wounds (by the way, originally stimpaks were kinda like panthenol on steroids - great for rashes, cuts, scratches, burns and flesh wounds, but did jack shit to heavy injury like broken bodyparts - you needed medical attention from an actual fucking...

15 May at 19:06 | Open on mastodon.ml
тёплый ветер тихо воет :wave1:

@drq because enemies literally don't have any room to flee. When the game simulates the battle distances, there's usually another enemy 30m away. You can flee because you have an open path behind you; AI can't without luring you into a deathtrap. This holds up even in TTRPGs.

15 May at 13:19 | Open on craba.cab
КМБ-4

@drq
When studio claims that game have this mechanics it works like shit or dont work at all

15 May at 18:49 | Open on lor.sh
Dr. Quadragon ❌

@coaxial I've seen NPCs fleeing in Pathologic 2.

You, though, are right fucked, hostile NPCs know no mercy.

15 May at 19:56 | Open on mastodon.ml
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