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57 comments
DELETED

@talia_christine See you on the barricades, comrade ✊ 🤣

nlupo

@talia_christine they are rich because the people on top of the pyramid say they are rich.

Yusuf Toropov

@talia_christine

Fomenting class warfare is so cool. Stalin is cool, too. Mao is cool. All the genocidal dictators who made the same absurdly broad generalisation and rode it like a canoe down a river of blood were SO DAMN COOL.

If something is simple, it must be true.

Four legs good, two legs better, too.

Cyber Yuki

@YusufToropov @talia_christine Suuuure, because anything communist is an Evil plot from Satan and everything capitalist must be good and god-inspired because AMERICA 🇺🇲🦅

Claudio Brogliato

@yuki2501 @YusufToropov @talia_christine I remember people being shot on the back trying to leave the paradise communist countries were. Such ingrate people.

Cyber Yuki

@caiodark @YusufToropov @talia_christine First of all, the original post said NOTHING about communism. It criticized THE RICH.

Second, it's incredibly ignorant to confuse (and dishonest to conflate) an ECONOMIC SYSTEM with a POLITICAL REGIME.

Sure, Stalin killed tons and tons of people, but Putin's a capitalist and don't tell me the people in Kiev are happy with him. Also, I can mention Pinochet, the United Fruit Company, the US blockade against Cuba, and so on.

ANYTHING that the US has been blaming on communism has turned out to happen in capitalism anyways.

Remind me again how expensive insulin prices are in the US, again?

@caiodark @YusufToropov @talia_christine First of all, the original post said NOTHING about communism. It criticized THE RICH.

Second, it's incredibly ignorant to confuse (and dishonest to conflate) an ECONOMIC SYSTEM with a POLITICAL REGIME.

Sure, Stalin killed tons and tons of people, but Putin's a capitalist and don't tell me the people in Kiev are happy with him. Also, I can mention Pinochet, the United Fruit Company, the US blockade against Cuba, and so on.

Harm Botjes

@yuki2501 @YusufToropov @talia_christine

Read again. Yusuf didn't use any of the words you use.

Donald Ball

@YusufToropov @talia_christine This isn’t a counterargument, my guy. This is puerile nonsense.

DELETED

@YusufToropov @talia_christine
I do understand your concern. Failure to take heed of history is why we are facing so many dangers that should have been preventable. Dictators and demagogues have co-opted public concern and outrage over great disparity of wealth in the past with terrible results. This does not mean that it is unacceptable to challenge the wisdom of a Gilded Age amidst robotic workforces or the conceptual invalidity of the meritocratic ideal.
If the meritocratic ideal was truly the basis upon which social mobility and wealth depended it would require that everyone have access to at least similar levels of security, education, nutrition, etc. This simply is not the case. Again I agree that caution should be taken against oversimplification and incitement of anger, but we still need to challenge the wisdom of extreme disparities of wealth which can cause the fear and frustration.

fortune.com/2024/03/18/gilded-

#TaxTheRich #GildedAge #Inequality #Plutocracy #Oligarchy

@YusufToropov @talia_christine
I do understand your concern. Failure to take heed of history is why we are facing so many dangers that should have been preventable. Dictators and demagogues have co-opted public concern and outrage over great disparity of wealth in the past with terrible results. This does not mean that it is unacceptable to challenge the wisdom of a Gilded Age amidst robotic workforces or the conceptual invalidity of the meritocratic ideal.
If the meritocratic ideal was truly the...

Andii אַנדִֽי

@YusufToropov That wasn't even about communism. It's just true about the vast majority of rich people.
What you do with that observation politically is a different conversation. But in my view, allowing slackers with luck on their side to pretend they're something they're not to justify bad behaviour and bad attitudes is not one of the options.

Yusuf Toropov

@Andii everyone seems to be taking comfort in the delusion I mentioned communism, as opposed to a blood-drenched playbook for the manipulation of idealistic naivete (of all ages) that goes back to at least the French Revolution.

I'm talking about whether language matters.

John Caveney woke is me🛠️

@talia_christine you appear to have omitted tax avoidance and tax evasion. In my opinion the same thing.

Cyber Yuki

@talia_christine Go back to the birth lottery's previous generations and eventually it's merciless exploitation anyway.

Legit_Spaghetti

@talia_christine This is very good, but the world often feels like the second one should be a Venn diagram with two perfectly overlapping circles.

Danny

@talia_christine There are two ways to use money.

One is as a tool to live a better life. The other is as a yardstick of status to measure yourself against others.

Many people aspire for the former but get caught up chasing the latter.

Emon

A luxury many do not have 😭

TerryB

@talia_christine It forgets *sheer luck*.
i.e. The ones we see as billionaires are the ones who randomly got lucky. The investment paid off, the idea came at the right time, the risky gamble succeeded and they made a packet or whatever. We don't see the equivalent individual who's investment failed, who's idea was too early the risky gamble failed and they lost everything or whatever. i e. The equivalent same person but without the lucky circumstance. Of which the accident of birth is maybe a subset.
In effect we laud the successful as if what seperates them from the failure is acumen not random chance. And starting rich definitely gives chance a leg up.

@talia_christine It forgets *sheer luck*.
i.e. The ones we see as billionaires are the ones who randomly got lucky. The investment paid off, the idea came at the right time, the risky gamble succeeded and they made a packet or whatever. We don't see the equivalent individual who's investment failed, who's idea was too early the risky gamble failed and they lost everything or whatever. i e. The equivalent same person but without the lucky circumstance. Of which the accident of birth is maybe a subset.

David Fetter

@terryb @talia_christine so yes, there's sheer luck, but the physical process of amassing that wealth comes from robbing the people who actually did the thing.

Bill Gates never built jack shit, and at least one of the people who actually did build what the people he hired sold early on died impoverished.

TerryB

@talia_christine Maybe I should summarise that as; statistically some chancers will luck out and end up as squillionairs. So the ones whom we see are the ones who did get lucky.

DELETED

@talia_christine Accurate . I would add tax evasion and organised crime to the last cake

A human being

@talia_christine The working man is LITERALLY working for his own poverty, its a trap that cannot be gotten out of. Every single route to making money is rigged to fail. Unless you are already wealthy, then cash just falls into your lap. eBay is a perfect example, the only winner on eBay IS eBay, the R&Rs are rigged against the seller. You want to SPEND however, no problems

Carrie

@racingdaily I think we could get out of it but because we are on the wrong side of the dollar we make the most sacrifices to stand up and take the power we deserve. OH and we would need a TON of people to be on board with all that.

Stephan Fabel

@talia_christine :bl71: I guess I’m a counter example. Exception to the rule?

Mandy May

@talia_christine
You know, this would make a great sticker for bus stop poles...
@malcircuit

🇨🇦 OhOkKay

@talia_christine
I used to admire Arlene Dickinson, a Canadian self-made Female millionaire ...

Until one day On Dragon's Den, she asked the person presenting her product what the manufacturing cost were and the presenter quoted a price. Arlene asked why so much? The presenter said she was using Canadian labour because she wanted to keep the jobs in our country. Arlene said that was silly and that she could hook her up with cheap labour over seas making the presenter richer faster.
Arlene Dickinson is okay with selling out Canadian labourers to cheaper off shore labour for personal profits.
I will never forget that.
Never.

@talia_christine
I used to admire Arlene Dickinson, a Canadian self-made Female millionaire ...

Until one day On Dragon's Den, she asked the person presenting her product what the manufacturing cost were and the presenter quoted a price. Arlene asked why so much? The presenter said she was using Canadian labour because she wanted to keep the jobs in our country. Arlene said that was silly and that she could hook her up with cheap labour over seas making the presenter richer faster.
Arlene Dickinson...

Mark

@talia_christine There is some truth in that, but it’s a terrible message. No legitimate route to wealth? No value in hard work, etc?

Carrie

@mark correct no way for mostly all of us to be rich. Hard work is cool and all. But I have leared to work hard on my home and family. Then the job gets whatever is leftover. Im tired of working hard to make someone richer while I struggle. SELF-PRESERVATION woot woot!

Khleedril

@mark @talia_christine It is not a terrible message. Forget wealth and live the life you've got. It's all you'll ever have. Don't give it to somebody else (unless they are going to reciprocate the sentiment).

Mark

@khleedril @talia_christine The flipside of that message is that hard work, gumption and a can-do attitude gets you nowhere, so don’t bother. And if you see somebody with wealth, well they basically stole it or it was given to them. So you can’t do anything. You have no agency. All you can expect from this life is despairing memes.

So yeah, not a message for your kids once you get past the surface level interpretation of “billionaires are bad”.

Ing

Agreed. If you’re in the west, you are privileged, and are richer than most. Equally, if you are in the west, refuse to aspire to make anything of your life because you believe the system is against you, you’ve squandered what billions on this planet could only dream of.

Cyber Yuki

@mark @talia_christine Ask the Amazon warehouse employees how much value they've gained thanks to their hard work.

Andii אַנדִֽי

@yuki2501 @mark @talia_christine
May be more effective to put hard work into union organising ...

Raff Karva

@mark @talia_christine

Do you really think that a billionaire works 33386 more hours per day than someone on £30k?

devanille

@talia_christine Maybe their grandparents made fortune selling fish with a donkey.

Persona Non Grata

@talia_christine Counter point. I came from deep poverty. I never wanted to be rich, but I wanted to be secure. The truth is that hard work and a good attitude has elevated me to a place I didn't not expect was possible as a child. I've broken cycles, and sit firmly in the lower middle class.

Am I rich? No, but I know there's a hell of a lot of space between where I was and where I am. Hard work and a good attitude really helped.

The kicker is that I'm disabled due to those choices. 🤷

Mx Verda

@King_Geedorah @talia_christine Yours is the closest situation to mine I’ve seen in these threads

johncarneyau

@talia_christine that second pie chart should be 100% birth lottery. Those that win the birth lottery inevitably go on to exploitation. Ok. Maybe it should be 99%. It’s possible that not EVERYBODY who exploits the working class won the birth lottery.

🙃 ɐıunp zsɐɯoʇ :idle:

@talia_christine I wouldn’t generalize, but yes, it’s right in 9 cases out of 10

Adrien Plazas

@talia_christine
How people think they got rights:
- voting
- negociating
- begging
- working hard

How people actually got rights:
- unionizing
- striking
- scaring the shit out of the dominants
- burning stuff in general

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