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Carolannie

@graywolf @yogthos @jimray LOL. Look to the EU. Lots of examples of benign socialism.

11 comments
Janne Ojaniemi

@carolannie @graywolf @yogthos @jimray EU is very much a capitalistic society. Just one with stronger social safety nets than USA.

Wildduck

@yogthos @Janne_O @carolannie @jimray too bad we can only think to lessen social spending whenever there's a little budget crisis but never raise the taxes on the very wealthy 🙃
I guess it can't be helped, we'll have to take that money ourselves 🤷

Carolannie

@Janne_O @graywolf @yogthos @jimray The EU is much more socialistic than the US, with a much more constrained capitalism. So the choice isn't capitalism vs "communism a la Pol Pot". It easily could be between pretty unconstrained capitalism such as we experience in the US or constrained and regulated capitalism with a good social structure. The note about Russian threats isn't relevant to this

Janne Ojaniemi

@carolannie @graywolf @yogthos @jimray I’m in Europe, Finland to be exact. And what you are calling socialism is just capitalism with social services. Private business is still very much the cornerstone of the economy and society as a whole.

Johan Boo-stra 👻 | PD1JMB

@Janne_O @carolannie @graywolf @yogthos @jimray

Pretty big strikes at the moment right? And a right-wing government that doesn't like that 😈

Matthias Aulbach

@Janne_O @carolannie @graywolf @yogthos @jimray This!
Just because the European kind of capitalism is somewhat socially fairer doesn't make it less hungry for resources. On the flipside, the Soviet Union wasn't exactly an environmental utopia, either, and neither is China.
So I guess we need something new altogether

DecaturNature

@carolannie @Janne_O @graywolf @yogthos @jimray Europe has often been more aggressively capitalist than the US. For instance, they extended copyright before we did.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyrigh

Carolannie

@DecaturNature @Janne_O @graywolf @yogthos @jimray ? this is about social policy writ large, not minutiae

SQU∄▲KY P▲Nᐊ▲K∄S

@carolannie the EU doesn't have socialism, they at best have social safety nets with a capitalism economy. Workers don't collectively own their work places, people aren't guaranteed home ownership, food still has to be bought by selling ones labor to someone else. Many EU countries have health care for everyone but that alone doesn't make it socialist.

Carolannie

@squeakypancakes i am totally crushed by the point being made, that the EU is not a communist heaven. I see the definition of "socialism" varies a lot. To clarify, i am talking about forms of democratic socialism, which can have more or less tightly regulated capitalist or free market components. The argument to start off was that either we have mostly American style unregulated capitalism or blood soaked "socialism" aka as the USSR or other authoritarian countries, which were socialist or communist in name only. But perhaps this goes into No True Scotsman territory. Suffice it to say that i dont even think that socialism or communism need to be blood soaked. But... depends on people, right?

@squeakypancakes i am totally crushed by the point being made, that the EU is not a communist heaven. I see the definition of "socialism" varies a lot. To clarify, i am talking about forms of democratic socialism, which can have more or less tightly regulated capitalist or free market components. The argument to start off was that either we have mostly American style unregulated capitalism or blood soaked "socialism" aka as the USSR or other authoritarian countries, which were socialist or communist...

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