Gregory's Server@Radical_EgoCom As for solidarity, humans are not egoistical homo economicii. But it's a useful approximation. Kin selection promotes familial solidarity... and also sibling rivalry. Imagined communities promote solidarity, but are built on familial concepts, and blood generally trumps religion and nationality. (Imagined communities also have a nasty habit of defining themselves in opposition to The Other.)
|
16 comments
@DrDanMarshall Also, I don't believe that solidarity primarily stems from kin selection and imagined communities. Solidarity is based on shared collective interests. It is oppressive hierarchies that reinforce familial ties over broader social connections. @Radical_EgoCom "I don't believe that idea of keeping sex private is a universal practice" Talk to the anthropologists about that one, I just work here. I'm a bit hesitant about proclaiming that anything the anthropologists tell us is a human universal will magically go away come The Revolution. When it comes to things like that, I would like to see an existence proof first, y'know? Kin selection: Nepotism is also on the list of human universals, unfortunately. @Radical_EgoCom "Solidarity is based on shared collective interests." What does "shared collective interests" mean, exactly? I'm assuming that it's not just an interest that every single individual member of the collective happens to have in common? @DrDanMarshall Regarding "shared collective interests," it is the interests that benefit the community as a whole, rather than just individual members. @Radical_EgoCom If I am an egotist, why should I care about the needs of the collective so long as my own needs are being served? If I am not egoist, what causes me to not be an egoist? (We have two, three, answers: kin selection, the bond between married co-parents, imagined communities. Do you have another?) "Nepotism is not a human universal." Again, talk to the anthropologists, and show me an existence proof. @DrDanMarshall @DrDanMarshall @Radical_EgoCom Humans are ethical, but our concern for fairness can probably be traced to tit-for-tat games between egoists, as mediated by our selfish genes. Compassion does exist, partly because of tit-for-tat, but also kin selection, imagined communities. I'm not saying humans don't help strangers, but we would generally put a higher priority on kin. And that, in itself, is a source of inequality. @DrDanMarshall @Radical_EgoCom Humans are hypersocial *because* of our selfish genes, plus the mental "memetic" hack of imagined communities. (Graeber and some other David argue that imagined communities are not limited to nations and religions, and that they have been around for as long as behaviorally modern humans have.) You are correct that nepotism doesn't entail inequality. However, unequal *clans* + nepotism = reinforced inequality. @DrDanMarshall @Radical_EgoCom Indeed :) Memes are a bad model, difficult to apply. But they at least allow us to take historical contingencies into account. If we see a cultural feature, we can investigate the conditions under which that "meme" tends to "evolve." The cultural traits that are universal persist across a wide range of environments, and are quite probably genetic rather than memetic. Change the conditions, change which "memes" are "fit." @DrDanMarshall @DrDanMarshall @Radical_EgoCom One thing I did like about Graeber and the other David's book was the concept of schismogenesis. It introduces a still deterministic but very chaotic "force" into cultural evolution. By contrast, too many anthropologists seem to treat "cultural evolution" as more deterministic than how modern biologists think biological *development* is. Evolution is a messy, chaotic bitch, and people who talk about cultural evolution should keep that in mind. |
@Radical_EgoCom Economic incentives at least have the advantage of being able to bind agents who *are* egoistic together.