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Eugen Rochko

I'm curious how other server administrators are handling users' reports of various degrees of pro-Russia content at the moment. Despite my personal position on the matter, I don't think any of our current server rules cover this situation, and while I am not certain if they should, the reports do keep coming.

34 comments
Hyolobrika

@Gargron is it true that you became less "pro-cancel" after being cancelled?

Eugen Rochko

@Hyolobrika If you could clarify what being "pro-cancel" entails in my alleged case, then I might be able to answer that question. As-is, none of the above.

Tim Chambers

@Gargron Not seeing much on my instance, but it's pretty focused on tech.

[DATA EXPUNGED]
Caleb James DeLisle

@Gargron
While I suspect my personal opinion is relatively close to yours, it is clear that there is a certain amount of "war frenzy" going on, and it is moments like these when we must be most vigilant about even application of principles, because the future will judge us by our actions, not our intentions.

Wexler

@Gargron This is obviously a really crucial question right now. Mastodon in my view is the last line of defence when it comes to repelling propaganda, or at least exposing it, as well as disseminating crucial technical information, etc. In my view there is a defacto World War 3 going on right now at least in cyber and I just hope you might realize this Eugen. Thanks.

Administrator

@Gargron blessed with being in the too small startup stage :bj: :thinking_fire: :oh_no:

Jigme Datse

@Gargron On our PeerTube instance (not seen pro-Russian invasion content yet) it would probably be block the video, check the account, and possibly block the account. We don't have active local users, so it would be federated content. It *may* depend on the type of content. Like, if it is, "Hey I think that Russia is right here" and not much beyond that... It may be more difficult. But if it is, "The west caused this, and Russia is right" it is conspiracy theory stuff. That is blocked.

claus

@Gargron Most Brazilian instances have these in their CoCs:

- Apologia a governos totalitários (defense of totalitarian regimes)
- Xenofobia e/ou nacionalismo extremista.
- Desinformação intencional ("fake news").

That kind of content will get you banned without warning.

Andy Valencia ✅

@Gargron I hope you're not slicing/dicing based on a particular viewpoint. It would be better to ask "Is it true? Is there a body of evidence to support it?" In the old, classic news parlance: "We report. You decide."

Nathan R

@Gargron Ukraine is too Nazi for me so I don't allow pro-Ukraine or pro-Russia propaganda. Only anti-war rhetoric allowed.

Eugen Rochko

@nate Do you have evidence of Ukraine being any more "nazi" than any other country in the region, incl. Russia? By what metrics are you measuring it?

Nathan R

@Gargron Only 3 countries, USA, Ukraine and Palau didn't vote for the resolution, "Combating glorification of Nazism, Neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fueling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance,". If you're against that then you're a Nazi.

Eugen Rochko

@nate Resolution from 2014, put forth by Russia, which has got an eye for the Baltic states and Ukraine, and invaded Georgia shortly prior. The EU abstained from that vote too. If Ukraine is a nazi state, wouldn’t you have something more tangible than a UN vote on an obscure resolution to show for it?

Nathan R

So because Georgia was liberated then it's okay to be pro-Nazi? There's been many chances to vote for it. As far as tangible, a dam was built to deprive civilians of 85% of their fresh water supply in Crimea. Slavyansk civilians were bombed by incendiary bombs which is strictly prohibited by the UN. Atrocity after atrocity. Russia is too patient and now Russia is therefore exercising the responsibility to protect. My belief: more patience required before risking global thermonuclear war.

Dan Fixes Coin-Ops

@Gargron If folk are reporting it, that's one way of telling you you've gotta have a rule, and asking you for help.

You can also ban anyone you like at any time whether they've technically broken a rule or not; it's just a website, and mastodon is even more Just A Website because folk can pack up and move to another instance pretty easily, assuming they can find a non-Russian pro-Russia server.
mastodon.social/@ifixcoinops/1

Eugen Rochko

@ifixcoinops Even if I technically have the right to ban anyone, it does not exactly foster trust if there is no consistency and it's not predictable. That's why I'd rather have clear rules.

Passepartout

@Gargron @ifixcoinops I have strong opinions about the situation in Eastern Europe (anti-Putin) and generally dislike apologism for that guy but I welcome a rules-based approach broadly speaking. If people get banned, it’s easier to ignore them if there was a citable reason to justify it. Which is to say I have never been a moderator but like what I think you’re trying to do.

Tagomago

@Gargron @ifixcoinops In the same way that the invasion forged on petty excuses has led to impose the martial law, you could use the announce feature to set some ad hoc rule of silencing propaganda accounts (maybe banning is overkill) for as long as the conflict goes, and work on a new draft of the CoC that addresses this in the meantime?

ASmellyOgre

@Gargron @ifixcoinops
I don't have personal experience as a moderator of online discourse.

That being said, most of my time online at knockout.chat, which is an active open source user-developed and user-run forum which formed after the original Facepunch Studios forums were deleted.

Large, open discussions about the rules and moderation styles are commonplace there.

Karl

@Gargron I personally want to foster a place of open discussion and alternative to corporate and government platforms that are squashing and censoring it. Some people may get heated, but as long as they are reasonably respectful, discussion is better than the alternative.

ozamidas

@Gargron I believe they are doing apology to war, in that sense, i wouldn't mind if instances had anti war rules.

Aral Balkan

@Gargron I can confirm that there is no pro-Russia content on my instance ;)

Marcus

@Gargron It doesn't seem like the kind of thing that could be regulated without those regulations being able to be misapplied in the future...

mihai_zainea

@Gargron What does it take to be a pro-Russia content? Realpolitik is a bitch but does it make it pro-Russia?!
If you go this way, the whole free speech we brag around here is null and void. People have opinions, good or bad. Don't like these, block them. Want to get involved and show them where they are wrong, do it.

Adam Dalliance

@Gargron Not very likely to get any pro-russia content on my instance but so long as it wasn't impolite or harassing anyone it is allowed to like Russia.

Maybe action if it explicitly encouraged more violence.

But merely liking Russia is fine.

stn 🇺🇦

@Gargron nothing originates from my instance because lol it's tiny, but I'm certainly blocking a lot of it, including whole instance blocks. There's a certain class of Extremely Online examples of horseshoe theory that I don't personally tolerate.

I don't know what *you*, specifically, should do. But the suggestion of "not glorifying totalitarian regimes" is interesting. It's all subjective though, you just gotta draw a line somewhere. There's no way to please everyone.

Netto Hikari 🇩🇪🇯🇵❤️🇺🇦

@Gargron My instance currently only has my friend, my wife and I on it. But if I had a bigger community, I would allow pro #Russia content, but stricly remove pro #war, pro #Putin and anti #Ukraine posts.

Please remember, this is not Russia's war, it's Putin's war. I'm fairly certain that most Russians absolutely condemn Putin's actions, just like the rest of the world.

🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦

Ali Mirjamali

@Gargron
I believe you should ban RT (Russia Today) and Sputnik media from your server to comply with instance rule No. 5: "No content illegal in Germany"

politico.eu/article/ursula-von

And make an announcement on it.

PaullusiveMan

@Gargron So is it wrong to say both Russia and Ukraine are bad? In one hand it appears Russia is liberating Ukraine of as many neo-nazis as he can. Along with all the US biolabs and on the other hand Ukraine was bombing 2 provinces and terrorizing the people for a couple of years or so because they are Russians mostly. I'm pro neither country but am pro truth and really hate legacy media. Should I toot negative toots about Ukraine along with Russia or will that get me kicked off this platform?

GSUGambit

@Gargron I have not seen any. I think administrators can block access to certain instances. You've developed a great product to handle situations like this at the admin level

danbri

@Gargron is there any way for you to somehow plug in links to articles from independent factcheckers? Eg see fullfact.org/about/automated/

Since Mastodon culture is wary of risks associated with crawling/search etc., I was wondering about other ways for fact checks to be connected up with problematic postings, to provide an alternative perspective. Should factcheckers make accounts and solicit tips for where to engage?

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