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fullfathomfive

@ikt

Because Duolingo sold itself as a crowd-sourced, semi-open social platform in the beginning, one where we could use Duo's tools to create a course for almost any language (including reviving dying and niche languages). It attracted some of the top language experts in the world who created courses for free.

For some of the smaller languages, those volunteers even donated their voices to the program - for example in the Esperanto course you will hear many sentences read by volunteers.

Then Duolingo changed tack, fired their volunteer workforce and locked them out of their course. The contractors they hired to replace them were often not language experts. Some of them didn't even speak the languages they were working on. All the language experts are gone, because they're expensive.

Many of the smaller languages got no paid workforce at all to replace their volunteer team, because those languages don't make money. Some of the smaller languages haven't had a course update in years and have glaring errors with no one to correct them, because it's not profitable to pay someone to maintain them. A couple that were in the incubator got ditched unceremoniously after 5+ years of work from their teams.

I never "wanted" Duolingo to rely on volunteers, that's how Duolingo built it, with misleading claims about crowd-sourcing and making language learning free and accessible to all ... then they took that free labour and turned it into profit.

More importantly, they hid that knowledge. Now they're using it to create an inferior product by feeding it to an AI, instead of giving it to people to use as it was originally intended.

5 comments
ikt πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦

@fullfathomfive I see you're looking at it from a completely different way to me, I just saw it as a gamified way to learn french, it did that in 2012 and still does that today

> ... then they took that free labour and turned it into profit.

Well yeah, they weren't making money, now they are, it makes no sense to continue using volunteers, thanks for your time and service 🫑

Duo is still amazingly free (considering every other language learning app BEGS for money before you've even signed up)

fullfathomfive

@ikt

If your primary concern is that a product is "free", and you don't care about the quality of the product, or about a corpus of valuable knowledge disappearing from the web, or about the exploitation of both volunteers and contract workers in the creation of that product, then yeah, I guess it is "amazing".

The way Duolingo was developed initially, it's like Wikipedia suddenly locking all of its information down, shutting out its editors, and replacing its website with an AI app that you can ask questions of while you get served ads.

You have no way of knowing the accuracy of the answers, you can't edit it, you can't search, you can't look at the sources. You just have to trust it. But hey, it's free. Quit complaining.

@ikt

If your primary concern is that a product is "free", and you don't care about the quality of the product, or about a corpus of valuable knowledge disappearing from the web, or about the exploitation of both volunteers and contract workers in the creation of that product, then yeah, I guess it is "amazing".

ikt πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦

@fullfathomfive

> You have no way of knowing the accuracy of the answers, you can't edit it, you can't search, you can't look at the sources. You just have to trust it.

So the same as every other language learning app?

I'd understand it to be like Wikipedia if Wikipedia was for profit.

forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/20

Still, the founders thought "significantly" about making Duolingo a nonprofit like Khan Academy in the early days, before Von Ahn realized that wouldn't be sustainable.

@fullfathomfive

> You have no way of knowing the accuracy of the answers, you can't edit it, you can't search, you can't look at the sources. You just have to trust it.

So the same as every other language learning app?

I'd understand it to be like Wikipedia if Wikipedia was for profit.

forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/20

fullfathomfive

@ikt I feel like we're talking past each other, and I'm all out of energy to explain things like what an analogy is, so this is the end of the convo for me. Enjoy Duolingo, I wish you the best.

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