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Luna, but on a new instance

In 2009, I join Twitter.
I make friends there.
I can see their posts.

Twitter has a Nazi problem.
I pre-emptively join Mastodon.
But I don’t really use it yet.

Elon Musk buys Twitter.
My friends start leaving.
I no longer see their posts.

I want to see my friends’ posts.

-

I find my friends again on Mastodon.
Now I have two apps to keep track of.
But I can see my friends’ posts again.

My instance admins get in a fight.
Friends’ instances defederate from mine.
I can no longer follow them, nor they me.
I am told about this by a friend who noticed.
There is no indication given by the software.
I am not notified of the connections I’ve lost.

I want to see my friends’ posts.

-

A friend invites me to their instance.
I accept, and migrate my profile across.
I re-follow missing friends I can remember.
And I can see my friends’ posts again.

A friend posts photos on her instance.
But those photos are not visible on mine.
Her profile appears, to me, devoid of images.
My new instance seemingly media-blocks hers.
There is no indication given by the software.

-

I just want to see my friends’ posts.

Am I wrong to want that?

-

moonbase.lgbt/blog/i-want-to-s

35 comments
Hambone Fakenamington

@luna I too found that I "probably can't be seen" by someone I was responding to, due to a block on their instance for my instance - with no documentation why.. and no way to contact the instance admins. (The email I sent was ignored).
Very frustrating. I also suspect the person I responded to does not know their instance is blocking one of the largest mastodon instances!

Björkus "No time_t to Die" Dorkus

@luna I JUST WANT TO SEE

MY FRIEND'S

POSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gaelan Steele

@luna Very well said.

found github.com/mastodon/mastodon/p, which seems like a move in the right direction at least, but obviously "fyi, you can no longer see your friends' posts" is only a small piece of the puzzle

Alexandra Magin 🏳️‍🌈

@luna Mastodon seems to have two kinds of product managers: Gargron and people who believe nobody should ever have a community larger than 100 people.

CubeOfCheese

@recursive @luna yess. Eugen seems to be the only voice of reason and the only one with a broader view of what mastodon/fedi could and should be.

Unfortunately I see him attacked in the replies of a lot his posts.

Anyway, I appreciate his user-oriented perspective

Alexandra Magin 🏳️‍🌈

@cubeofcheese @luna I'm not really praising Eugen either -- his interests seem to be narrowly focused on the success of his very large instance and his particular ideas about what social media should be (see his attitude about QTs)

CubeOfCheese

@recursive @luna true. Small instances definitely don't have as good of an experience as they should

kouhai, resolver of merges

@recursive @luna also glitch

(Claire is perhaps the real saint of this web)

Noah Kennedy

@luna honestly, it seems like a lot of the larger instances have the Reddit Mod problem

kinda wonder if it's best to just not have larger instances, or at least not larger instances which aren't managed in an incredibly open and professional manner

Generic Sadboy 1916

@noah @luna 100%

more smaller instances with tighter community guidelines and good moderation; that way defederation becomes a one off event rather then drama of the month.

Noah Kennedy

@chriscoreline @luna i don't think loose community guidelines are the issue here really

with small instances where everyone already knows each other pretty well before joining, an informal social contract is enough. if everyone has a shared concept of what a dick is, "don't be a dick" is good enough

if another small instance is mostly dicks, you can defederate them easily because you and your friends are probably not following folks on the other instance anyways

Noah Kennedy

@chriscoreline @luna with bigger instances, defederation is always going to be hard and so you are basically at the mercy of whatever their administration feels like doing

folks are talking about threads, but imo we already have this problem, threads might make it worse but it doesn't create any new issues

Demi Marie Obenour

@chriscoreline @noah @luna Huge numbers of small instances are only really feasible of Mastodon is available as a SaaS. Self-hosting is too hard for nontechnical people.

Generic Sadboy 1916

@alwayscurious @noah @luna

Mastohost is doing a REALLY good (if incomplete) job of Saasing Mastodon, and the software itself is getting easier to deploy every time i convince myself starting an instance is a good idea. and a lot of the issues raised frequently are already on the roadmap (as was demonstrated elsewhere in the thread)

The good thing about the fediverse story is its open and incomplete; we have the ability to shape how it looks, and honestly, i think the letter and spirit of the technology is incompatible with thousands of users per instance under voluntary moderation.

@alwayscurious @noah @luna

Mastohost is doing a REALLY good (if incomplete) job of Saasing Mastodon, and the software itself is getting easier to deploy every time i convince myself starting an instance is a good idea. and a lot of the issues raised frequently are already on the roadmap (as was demonstrated elsewhere in the thread)

pa

@luna rent or deploy your own instance.

Luna, but on a new instance

@pa I have the technical capability, but lack the patience. Would you make the same recommendation to a non-technical user?

Cavetoad

@luna yep. This remains my biggest issue with Mastodonland is how hard it is to find where my people may have landed and how to find what’s out there that I might want to see

Fennix :donor:

@luna there definitely needs to be more clearly marked notifications around these sorts of things. There's really no excuse it shouldn't have this stuff already.

Alexey Skobkin

@luna
That's why I'm telling every instance admin that instance block should be the last resort. Like when malicious domain without real users appears. If they're afraid of another instance, why not just LIMIT it? This way their users may still follow users on that instance.
But no, a lot of them so full of themselves and think that they're the right person to decide for you. And when I call them out on that, they say that "it's easy to move!".

I like to groan at such moments. They're too stupid to understand that untill full server block is considered the last resort by everybody, users won't have a peaceful place anywhere. It's just useless to move if you have 100 friends and each one of them are unavailable from somewhere.

@luna
That's why I'm telling every instance admin that instance block should be the last resort. Like when malicious domain without real users appears. If they're afraid of another instance, why not just LIMIT it? This way their users may still follow users on that instance.
But no, a lot of them so full of themselves and think that they're the right person to decide for you. And when I call them out on that, they say that "it's easy to move!".

Zach Fine

@luna This is why, for the moment, I’m staying on (and funding) the very large instance. I can hardly follow the dramas between instances that I hear about, I don’t want to have to manage to untangle various disconnected threads of recriminations just to understand why my whole instance was blocked.

Jerry Lerman

@luna

"My instance Admin gets into a fight"

"Friends’ instances defederate from mine"

"I want to see my friends' posts"

The same happened to me. It wouldn't happen to involve .art, would it? The Queen of bullying and punishment by selfish block abuse? And reputation attacker?

I need a good reason before I block an instance, even if the instance Admin is a jerk. Members come first. I wish Admins would understand the impact on people when they block.

You are right to want to stay connected to your friends. You are right to expect it. You were made an implicit promise when you joined Mastodon. Someone broke the promise.

I'm sorry you've had to deal with this nonsense.

@luna

"My instance Admin gets into a fight"

"Friends’ instances defederate from mine"

"I want to see my friends' posts"

The same happened to me. It wouldn't happen to involve .art, would it? The Queen of bullying and punishment by selfish block abuse? And reputation attacker?

I need a good reason before I block an instance, even if the instance Admin is a jerk. Members come first. I wish Admins would understand the impact on people when they block.

A Slightly Orange Cat

@luna Perhaps ActivityPub / Mastodon needs a protocol by which two people on different servers who have a mutually affirmed relationship are always allowed to interact, regardless of the rules of their servers.

Yepoleb

@mbrailer There's no need for a protocol extension, this would already be possible if admins only blocked instances for safety or security reasons.

A Slightly Orange Cat

@yepoleb Thank you for your explanation. Is it then possible, assuming instance A is blocking instance B, for a user on A to follow a user on B?

Yepoleb

@mbrailer As I understand it, instance A needs to limit instance B, not block it for that to be possible. Limiting hides all content from the instance but allows follower interactions.

Robert

@yepoleb @mbrailer I wonder if blocking for legal reasons is (already) a thing. Consider someone on a smaller instance posting copyright-protected content. Lets say that instance is hosted in some foreign country with slow courts. So copyright owner's lawyers fire off a load of cease-and-desists to all instances they can reach.
As an admin of a small self-hosted instance, would you resist?

WarpinWolf

@luna start your own - and you'll own...

Tim Boucher

@luna thanks for sharing this.
I only recently joined Mastodon, so I don’t grasp fully how it works. I knew instances can ban other instances, but I didn’t think of the reality of it.
In my mind, I pictured it working more like an RSS client but there’s more to its model I suppose.

Maria Liv ✏️

@luna Come on over to toot.io @jan is the best admin, and for all I know, he leaves blocking etc up to the users. You can have your own instance on toot.io as well, if you want full control of your experience in the Fediverse.

Ahroo

@luna Reminds me of a social media idea I had lying around in the back of my head when I considered this problem. It involved clients managing their own local feed and then passing it to either an 'aggregator' to coalesce it with others for ease of discovery by other clients (matching the purpose of an 'instance', but without having to have your account there and deal with migration when you want to leave), and/or 'relays' for direct comms between two mutual parties (in order to allow people with the ability to manage servers to contribute to keeping the network running without having to resort to *everyone* having to be a sysadmin). When you don't want someone or somewhere to see your posts, you just, well, don't send 'em.

... Considering this is effectively just RSS with extra steps, though, I get the feeling that's probably what's gonna happen. Someone makes a specialized RSS client with good microblog social media UX and a couple infrastructure bundles anyone can set up, and markets it like a new platform, bam. they win.

@luna Reminds me of a social media idea I had lying around in the back of my head when I considered this problem. It involved clients managing their own local feed and then passing it to either an 'aggregator' to coalesce it with others for ease of discovery by other clients (matching the purpose of an 'instance', but without having to have your account there and deal with migration when you want to leave), and/or 'relays' for direct comms between two mutual parties (in order to allow people with...

Dietmar Hauser

@luna Guess you need to run your own Mastodon instance and invite all your friends! 😅

Luna, but on a new instance

@rattenhirn (I realize you’re doing a joke, but) I just want to see my friends’ posts — I shouldn’t have to take up admin/moderation duties in service of that goal!

gkrnours

@luna I wonder how hard it would be to make a software able to handle a few mastodon account that can run from a raspberry pi zero. Like blog sized inatance, for oneself and maybe a friend or two

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