@juliobiason
2000 XHTML / W3C Rec.
2001 SVG / W3C Rec.

@juliobiason So the lesson is: HTMX hasn't done anything that needs fixing yet. 😉

@juliobiason @stuartmarks I'm still using HTML tables, that's ok right?

@juliobiason what about Qwik?

@juliobiason i use solutions from 1995 and i'm feeling fine with that...

@juliobiason 2006 was a good year.

@juliobiason PHP joined the chat group

@juliobiason@functional.cafe @fireship_dev@functional.cafe The DOM rules!

@juliobiason nowadays web browser like Firefox used some 2 Gb of RAM just to keep a dozen of tabs. So it would be a good idea to close such glitchy stuff to play not only Starfield but Fallout 76. Even 16 GB is never enough

@juliobiason HTML 2 was the best! Tables were a blast.

Do we all dislike cookies?

@juliobiason Markdown: showing you all the stuff that doesn't matter in HTML since 2004.

@juliobiason Hah! Meanwhile, HTML and CSS fixed themselves, and PHP powers like what 90% of the web?
"Sit down, JS, you're drunk" 😅

@juliobiason I get jokes and all - but these days you can actually replace jQuery with JavaScript! Full circle, we did it!

Not that I'm too good for jQuery or anything.

@juliobiason How much of this is due to WordPress, Drupal, and Joomla shipping jQuery by default?

@juliobiason Personally I'm glad that I stopped at the 1995 tech and didn't bother wasting time on the others except a little jquery in grad school.

@juliobiason Hypertext was meant to add links, images and maybe headings to text documents. Javascript was maybe invented for changing images when the mouse cursor hovered over them. There was no great language specification behind all this. I mean, just compare the "box model" and its so-called "implementation" to the Java Language Specification - just take a look into the chapter about monitors. The implementation of it works since day 1 as the specification says.

@juliobiason

@mina
@2ndStar
@MaJ1

ICUMI:

A brief history of the internet (for nerds)

https://functional.cafe/@juliobiason/111613996060167180

@juliobiason and the biggest trouble maker is not even listed: Internet Explorer

@juliobiason 95 to 06 was a good run

@juliobiason
2004: AJAX invented to fix page refresh

2010: CSS3 spec finalized to fix jQuery animate()

@juliobiason

https://html-first.com/

@juliobiason This fantastic new web tech stack will fix all the issues with all the old web tech stack, pinky promise this time! The growing number of the latest shiny toys on the whole pile of ordure is exhausting. Web development has one single thing gong for it, which is the ubiquituy of browsers, the rest of it is terrible. Man-millennia of effort put in to devise works around of fundamentally bad design decisions ossified into standards. What as waste of ingenuity.

@juliobiason no XHTML or XSLT or HTML5?

@juliobiason you seem to have missed the biggest craze of DHTML and the standardisation of DOM api circa 1997 to fix JS fragmentation. It was huge.

jQuery fixed MS and Apple intentionally sloppy and broken implemtation of DOM.

@juliobiason how true!

@juliobiason 2014: reagent fixes react. the api remains unchanged for a decade. the end.

@juliobiason 😜

@juliobiason Not to mention the huge mess of HTTP 1.0, 1.1, 2 and 3

@juliobiason that's life.

@juliobiason @fs111

@juliobiason Before HTML there was SGML 😉

@juliobiason in the darkest time line people remember xhtml... I liked xhtml.

@juliobiason Elm needs more credit

@juliobiason

Forgot all the PHP still dominating the web too. 😉

@juliobiason Actually, CSS was not meant to fix HTML. Independent stylesheets were planned from the beginning (as a parallel to DSSSL for SGML).

@juliobiason components are in the HTML now

@juliobiason Cool. I played around with CSS a bit when it came out. Missed everything that came after that. Lucky me!

@juliobiason I feel this is missing Prototype & Scriptaculous before & along JQuery.

@juliobiason I like the perspective of HTMX invented to fix intercooler js, which was invented in 2013 to fix AJAX https://intercoolerjs.org

@juliobiason Yeah but CSS snuck in the back way and took over almost all the frontend stuff that only js could do then Flash came in and js was super cool for writing browser sniffs and whatever then Flash went out and now CSS can do pretty much everything Flash used to do and now most js in the frontend is by people that don't understand CSS ...

Full disclosure, I used to work with lazy frontend devs that would do every interface styling with jQuery right down to rounded corners on divs LOL

@juliobiason If it ain't broke...

@juliobiason It's all maintenance and firefighting all the way down.

@juliobiason
🎶 The hip bone's conneected to the ...

@juliobiason You forgot Weird Al releasing a parody of DJ Shadow titled, “Why the web sucks in ‘96”

@juliobiason nailed it

@juliobiason still happy with jQuery for most things, though added HTMX on a couple of projects and it helped refactor some messy $post stuff

@juliobiason this is why we should have stuck with Gopher

@juliobiason React, Angular, and all its tentacular cess-pits (aka #Svelte, #NextJS) all have accidental complexity masquerading as essential complexity. These are the #k8s ( #Kubernaughties ) of front-end.

@juliobiason all of which could have been avoided if someone got around making vanilla DOM manipulation API usable.

Most web just needs a sprinkle of interactivity.

@juliobiason https://youtu.be/aXcuz6fn8_w?si=_BrQaFtmaLYztPd4

@juliobiason HTML invented to fix plaintext :blobcatthinkingsmirk:

@juliobiason 😂

@juliobiason 2025: People who are not jQuery’s target fail to understand its success, invent something else, jQuery persists.
2026: People who are not jQuery’s target fail to understand its success, invent something else, jQuery persists.
2027: People who are not jQuery’s target fail to understand its success, invent something else, jQuery persists.
2028: People who are not jQuery’s target fail to understand its success, invent something else, jQuery persists.

@juliobiason No love for Bootstrap? 🤣

@juliobiason Classic first day when learning web development:

Student: So...which technologies are we going to learn here?
Prof: YES (only attaching frontend roadmap lol

@juliobiason I still use only the first three.

@juliobiason I still remember building the website for Dragon (now Nuance) in plain old HTML where animated GIFs were the fanciest part of the web toolbox

@juliobiason And all these new versions of Bootstrap that fix the previous one and force you to rewrite everything

@juliobiason The sad thing is that it obfuscates how great vanilla js and DOM has become. For my personal projects, I use no dependencies anymore, and I'm having a blast.

Bonus point : being built only on standards, those apps will work forever (well, for as long as I live, at least) without needing maintenance.