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mau πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ#PhaseOutFossilFuels

Nuclear took 20 years to reach 200GW, at a huge cost, causing several terrible accidents and producing a toxic waste that needs to be guarded for thousands of years.

Wind and solar reached 200GW in half the time for a fraction of the cost and without significant incidents.
2 Dec 2023 at 11:03 | Open on mas.to
28 comments
mau πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ#PhaseOutFossilFuels

Do smaller nuclear reactors get built faster?

No.

If small reactors worked Russia would be littered with them.
2 Dec 2023 at 17:08 | Open on mas.to
mau πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ#PhaseOutFossilFuels

Do newer nuclear reactors get built faster?

Also no.
2 Dec 2023 at 17:22 | Open on mas.to
mau πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ#PhaseOutFossilFuels
Steven Bodzin bike & subscribe
mau πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ#PhaseOutFossilFuels

@stevenbodzin Yeah, I know. Thats part of what got me thinking about it.

Tripling nuclear capacity will put it... on par with Solar in 2022.

That and EDF saying they want to be able to build "1 or 2 reactors per year instead of per decade by 2030" (a whooping 1% of what Solar added this year).

2 Dec 2023 at 17:58 | Open on mas.to
Steven Bodzin bike & subscribe

@mzedp it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter just like new permits for Arctic drilling don't matter. At this point the market is on the good side. Investors have an appetite for more nuclear, sure but nothing like that.

3 Dec 2023 at 0:37 | Open on thepit.social
Erik Uden ⁂πŸ₯₯πŸŒ΄πŸ‘

@mzedp Solar and Wind also doesn't require resources only acquired through neo-colonialism (Mali, Tuareg, Uranium)

3 Dec 2023 at 6:55 | Open on mastodon.de
Daniel Brotherston

@ErikUden @mzedp

You sure about that buddy? Most of the crucial rare earth elements required for building solar and wind projects do not come from the west.

On the contrary, Canada and Australia are two of the major producers of Uranium.

The choice to demonize and kill nuclear power is one of the greatest drivers of climate change. But even leaving that alone, Germany's choice to shut down their nuclear reactors alone has caused significant increases in air pollution and radiation released from burning coal for power.

@ErikUden @mzedp

You sure about that buddy? Most of the crucial rare earth elements required for building solar and wind projects do not come from the west.

On the contrary, Canada and Australia are two of the major producers of Uranium.

The choice to demonize and kill nuclear power is one of the greatest drivers of climate change. But even leaving that alone, Germany's choice to shut down their nuclear reactors alone has caused significant increases in air pollution and radiation released from burning...

3 Dec 2023 at 8:57 | Open on types.pl
Erik Uden ⁂πŸ₯₯πŸŒ΄πŸ‘

@danbrotherston I do not favor coal, as a matter of fact I was part of the LΓΌtzerath protests.

Most of France's nuclear power plants are fueled through Mali's Uranium. The rest was imported from Russia. You usually make yourself dependent on other states and imports.

When it comes to Lithium or Silicon, among other rare metals necessary for building solar and wind, they, too, are "imported" and often have horrific working conditions down the supply chain, you are right.

I am still against nuclear because its cost compared to wind and solar is just way too high.

@danbrotherston I do not favor coal, as a matter of fact I was part of the LΓΌtzerath protests.

Most of France's nuclear power plants are fueled through Mali's Uranium. The rest was imported from Russia. You usually make yourself dependent on other states and imports.

When it comes to Lithium or Silicon, among other rare metals necessary for building solar and wind, they, too, are "imported" and often have horrific working conditions down the supply chain, you are right.

3 Dec 2023 at 9:02 | Open on mastodon.de
Daniel Brotherston

@ErikUden

Shutting down all it's nuclear plants and replacing them with coal was the direct result of green advocacy in Germany.

If they'd fought coal instead, the world would be a better place.

Even if we leave history aside, I support wind and solar they are what I see as the future, but I would never waste my time opposing nuclear, even new investments in it. I could be wrong, and ultimately investing in nuclear is a pro-climate policy regardless of whether it is the BEST policy or not. The people who burn coal, oil, and natural gas are the real enemies, and every time I see a thread like this, I feel my time and efforts are being wasted.

@ErikUden

Shutting down all it's nuclear plants and replacing them with coal was the direct result of green advocacy in Germany.

If they'd fought coal instead, the world would be a better place.

Even if we leave history aside, I support wind and solar they are what I see as the future, but I would never waste my time opposing nuclear, even new investments in it. I could be wrong, and ultimately investing in nuclear is a pro-climate policy regardless of whether it is the BEST policy or not. The people...

3 Dec 2023 at 9:33 | Open on types.pl
DELETED

@danbrotherston @ErikUden @mzedp

How does cool burning causes radiation? Which kind?

But the main point you forgot that the biggest problem of #nuclearpower is the waste problem there is still no good solution in sight and it is incredible expensive.

3 Dec 2023 at 9:32 | Open on social.dev-wiki.de
Erik Uden ⁂πŸ₯₯πŸŒ΄πŸ‘

@radife this! I think we shoild begin talking about nuclear reactors when there is ANYWHERE where one can put the nuclear waste. There is no German nor a European solution yet!

3 Dec 2023 at 9:33 | Open on mastodon.de
Daniel Brotherston

@radife @ErikUden @mzedp

Interesting that you don't know this. Coal contains radioactive elements that are released into the air as a result of combustion. In fact, more radiation has been released by burning of coal than all the nuclear accidents in history.

Nuclear waste is a unique problem only when you don't compare it with the waste products from coal plants or dealing with the lifecycle of solar or wind generation. All human activities generate waste, and while nuclear waste is uniquely challenging it is also very small in scale and containment, something that is not true for other waste problems.

@radife @ErikUden @mzedp

Interesting that you don't know this. Coal contains radioactive elements that are released into the air as a result of combustion. In fact, more radiation has been released by burning of coal than all the nuclear accidents in history.

Nuclear waste is a unique problem only when you don't compare it with the waste products from coal plants or dealing with the lifecycle of solar or wind generation. All human activities generate waste, and while nuclear waste is uniquely challenging...

3 Dec 2023 at 9:35 | Open on types.pl
Word of Mouth

@mzedp@mas.to And that tapping only a tiny fraction of solar energy that reaches earth.

3 Dec 2023 at 7:12 | Open on calckey.world
Maikel πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡Ί
ejim

@mzedp yeah, but big companies want big money. Thats why they want big nuclear power projects, so they can get money from the state that they don't have to pay back, because big powerplants are big critical. They can also charge more for energy and can keep their power, unlike with wind, where every town can own their own and solar, where everybody can have their own powerplant on their roof.
I don't think its about facts but about power. They are against the decentralization of the economy.

3 Dec 2023 at 7:18 | Open on muenster.im
Robert J. Berger

@mzedp And Solar/Wind don’t leave around industrial scale deadly waste that lasts for 100’s of thousands of years.

3 Dec 2023 at 7:32 | Open on hachyderm.io
Gavin Lux Enjoyer

@mzedp do many people became YIMBYs for nuclear power lately it’s crazy.

3 Dec 2023 at 7:45 | Open on mastodon.xyz
Comrade Ferret

@mzedp More people have died to both solar and wind than to nuclear. The reason it's plateaued in generation is because of doomsayers like you.

engineering.com/story/whats-th

3 Dec 2023 at 7:50 | Open on redpawcollective.co
Christian Berger DECT 2763

@mzedp To be fair, solar and wind run less often at full rated power, so one would have to divide their power by a factor of perhaps 4 or so... but that wouldn't make a big change to the graph.

3 Dec 2023 at 8:13 | Open on f-ckendehoelle.de
mau πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ#PhaseOutFossilFuels

@casandro That's the one valid criticism of this graph - I thought of including a capacity-factor corrected peak power to address it, but decided to go for the simpler chart.

In any case, including a conservative capacity factor of 40% for wind and 15% for solar, we're already at above the level of nuclear - and, again, in less time, without big international accidents or nuclear waste.

3 Dec 2023 at 9:01 | Open on mas.to
Sulfide_Sleuth

@mzedp
While I agree that wind and solar are great, we cannot pretend that these technologies aren't without their own problems. Wind turbines require a ton (literally 1 metric ton) of REE elements that are found in or associated with radioactive minerals like monazite and zircon.
This creates huge radioactive waste piles.
bbc.com/future/article/2015040
Everything has pros and cons, to be blind to the problems will lead us to create more environmental catastrophes in the rush to fix the current one.

@mzedp
While I agree that wind and solar are great, we cannot pretend that these technologies aren't without their own problems. Wind turbines require a ton (literally 1 metric ton) of REE elements that are found in or associated with radioactive minerals like monazite and zircon.
This creates huge radioactive waste piles.
bbc.com/future/article/2015040
Everything has pros and cons, to be blind to the problems will lead us to create more environmental catastrophes...

3 Dec 2023 at 8:48 | Open on sciencemastodon.com
Daniel Brotherston

@mzedp I'm done with the green movement demonizing nuclear power. The green movement demonizing nuclear power in the 80s is the single greatest driver of climate change after the car.

3 Dec 2023 at 8:54 | Open on types.pl
mau πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ#PhaseOutFossilFuels

@danbrotherston I'm not demonizing anything, just stating facts.

It's not been environmentalists but economics that killed nuclear.

If nuclear power was a truly viable technology it would be standing on it's own by now, instead of still trying to survive.

3 Dec 2023 at 8:57 | Open on mas.to
dennisaurus

@mzedp @danbrotherston Completely false. Nuclear power's troubles have been entirely legal, not technological or economic. And those legal troubles were the work of misguided activists.

3 Dec 2023 at 9:02 | Open on mstdn.social
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