I love moving to inclusive naming of things in tech....

I love moving to inclusive naming of things in tech.

Not only is "Allowlist/Blocklist" (or equivalent) more inclusive than "whitelist/blacklist", it also makes it that much more clear what putting something on the list actually does.

Same with Master branches on code repositories - what does that even mean? It's not actually ruling over any other branches, it's just the main code trunk all of the others are branching off of. Calling it "master" just makes it more confusing.

Same with "master/slave" databases - Active/standby is going to be more clear about the roles and responsibilities of the various servers.

Like 19 Oct 2023 at 16:53 | Open on infosec.exchange

45 comments

Hrefna (DHC)

@JessTheUnstill This is one of the points that I really like to underscore: changing for inclusiveness and accessibility is sufficient, but the new names are also often _so much better_.

"Master/slave" not only is problematic, but as you point out it _makes no sense_ with how these systems are used in practice, and much clearer naming is available.

19 Oct 2023 at 16:58 | Open on hachyderm.io

Jess👾

@hrefna
Right. And sure, for people who have been in the industry, yeah, they have the oral history and tradition of knowing what those terms mean in practice. But I, for one, want there to be a whole bunch of people who don't currently know all this crap to learn how to maintain it before I shuffle off this plane of existence. And if I can change some words that makes it easier for the next generation of folks, and the added benefit of not making some people feel bad while simply trying to do their job, why not?!?

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19 Oct 2023 at 17:05 | Open on infosec.exchange

your auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦

@JessTheUnstill TIL "slave" DB is actually in stand-by and not active with the main DB. it is, indeed, better terminology.

people need to reckon, UI/UX isn't limited to visual design. it's the foundation of linguistics and how we communicate with words.

19 Oct 2023 at 17:02 | Open on mastodon.social

@blogdiva @JessTheUnstill oh nice i'm not the only replyer who didn't get that until this post

that other terminology is so counterintuitive, like if you've got a master and slave which one of them is going to be doing all the work...

19 Oct 2023 at 21:26 | Open on mycrowd.ca

DELETED

@JessTheUnstill I hope we don't get away from Dom/Sub API calls though. I like imagining my subby little API all edged out desperately waiting for the Dom to insert some data.

19 Oct 2023 at 17:30 | Open on chaosfem.tw

Blake Leonard

@Terra@chaosfem.tw @JessTheUnstill@infosec.exchange domain checks out

19 Oct 2023 at 17:31 | Open on infosec.town

Spooky Rosey Posey🌹👻

@Terra
Omg I'm certain this is going to pop into my head next time I'm programming 🤣🤣

19 Oct 2023 at 17:57 | Open on lgbtqia.space

DELETED

@Flyingfirepig You want that data packet, API? You want my deeeeply nested JSON structure? Tell me how much you want my data packet. Beg me. Beg for my data packet.

19 Oct 2023 at 19:20 | Open on chaosfem.tw

Kit Bashir

@Terra @Flyingfirepig reminds me of this classic UK comedy sketch: https://youtu.be/gMFJrQo-Xlk?si=ApSRJic4JrnVrS5Y

19 Oct 2023 at 21:00 | Open on aus.social

Dave "Wear A Goddamn Mask" Cochran :donor:

@Terra @JessTheUnstill .5kbps... .5kbps.... 20MBPS....

19 Oct 2023 at 18:39 | Open on infosec.exchange

ator robot

@JessTheUnstill Have you or anyone else heard of a good inclusive alternative to "master alarm"? Preferably, one that is actually used in industry to an extent.

19 Oct 2023 at 17:54 | Open on tech.lgbt

John.e.lamb

@ator @JessTheUnstill huh. This might be an instance where “master” makes sense, it’s not referring to slave and in airplanes, it really is a catch-all. (Are you thinking of “master caution” in a cockpit?)

But in the spirit of doing away with it anyway, “global” or “integral” might do?

19 Oct 2023 at 18:27 | Open on mastodon.social

ator robot

@johnelamb @JessTheUnstill I'm thinking of its general use in e.g. annunciator panels, which does apply usually to planes, yes. Reason being that I'm developing a game which has "master alarms" that can be individually silenced.

I don't think global or integral are clear enough - global implies a warning for the whole system, while integral seems unintuitive to me (less clear definition imo)

19 Oct 2023 at 18:32 | Open on tech.lgbt

ator robot

@johnelamb interestingly, even in this case it's not perfect. master implies control of the slaves, whereas in reality a master alarm is triggered by its subjects :blobcatgiggle:

19 Oct 2023 at 18:33 | Open on tech.lgbt

John.e.lamb

@ator hmm. Good point. “Aggregator Alarm” ? Or “Escalation Alarm?”

19 Oct 2023 at 18:37 | Open on mastodon.social

ator robot

@johnelamb I like Aggregator! Aggregate maybe?

I probably wouldn't use it when I'm trying to replicate industry standards, but it's something I'd be ready to suggest as an alternative

19 Oct 2023 at 18:40 | Open on tech.lgbt

Jess👾

@johnelamb @ator Some googling talks about "Area Alarm" or "Combination Alarm". Some other random ideas:

Facility
Primary
Main
Mass
Collection
Comprehensive
Overall

19 Oct 2023 at 18:47 | Open on infosec.exchange

John.e.lamb

@JessTheUnstill @ator one thing that I like about this approach is i image there is a lot of overlap between people using the old terms, and people who really want things to mean exactly what they say, and we can use that later pedantry to lubricate the social change for the first.

Use the “technically true is the best kind of true” effect to our advantage.

19 Oct 2023 at 19:15 | Open on mastodon.social

Negative12DollarBill

@ator @johnelamb
Is it a root alarm then, which can be triggered by branches? Or a head/brain which gets messages from its limbs?

19 Oct 2023 at 19:46 | Open on techhub.social

Alan

@ator @JessTheUnstill Hub? Central? General?

20 Oct 2023 at 16:58 | Open on infosec.exchange

Ale :cat_is_blob_and_has_mug: :v_trans: :v_pan:

@JessTheUnstill@infosec.exchange i need to rename k8s infrastructure to: top/bottom nodes

19 Oct 2023 at 17:55 | Open on transgirl.cafe

Kevin Karhan :verified:

@JessTheUnstill *nodds in agreement*

Ideally one would have spelling filemanes that directly indicate what they do and contain.

For example: activitypub.domains.block.list.tsv is a blocklist that contains activitypub domains that one should block.

I literally do this for my repo.
https://github.com/greyhat-academy/lists.d

And yes, I want to #DoBetter than BadSp@ce!

19 Oct 2023 at 18:04 | Open on mstdn.social

Markus Werle

@JessTheUnstill #Master in the sense of Master Yoda Branch. It's not actually ruling over any other branches, it just holds all the acceptable truth and all others contribute to or derive from it.

https://github.com/dep-heaven/tool_1/blob/master-yoda/CMakeLists.txt

<sarcasm>
But I am very happy that the change of "master" to "main" at #GitHub had such a huge impact on abolishing slavery and that all abuse via #capitalism has ceased due to this extraordinary state.
</sarcasm>

19 Oct 2023 at 18:46 | Open on nrw.social

Jess👾

@markuswerle Just because a simple language change doesn't unwind centuries of atrocities and abuses doesn't mean it's not worth doing. I can't solve systemic racism, but I can try to influence the little parts of the world I have some control over in a more inclusive direction.

19 Oct 2023 at 18:50 | Open on infosec.exchange

Markus Werle

@JessTheUnstill I don't see it this way. By putting energy into a virtual hair-splitting you explicitly deny authentic action in the real world. It gives you a sense of movement, but this pre-stage of word policing only alienates people who would otherwise stand with you.

To make it clear: I only refer to the part with "master". The usage of blacklisting/whitelisting is something I consider worthwhile to rethink due to the referral to slavery. The word "master" has a larger semantic field.

19 Oct 2023 at 19:29 | Open on nrw.social

Jess👾

@markuswerle
Re: "It gives you a sense of movement, but this pre-stage of word policing only alienates people who would otherwise stand with you."

If someone is going to turn against a movement towards a more just and equal world simply because we asked them to use "main" rather than "master", they weren't going to support us anyways when we demanded things that actually materially impact their white privilege or cost them money. They were never going to support the movement until they have a change of heart.

19 Oct 2023 at 19:35 | Open on infosec.exchange

Abi

@markuswerle @JessTheUnstill

it's an incredibly trivial change to switch things over from master to main. do a find-replace, you're probably done in 5 minutes.

the only real waste of energy here is dealing with people who dig in their feet about it.

19 Oct 2023 at 19:46 | Open on eightpoint.app

Markus Werle

@letsbekind2 @JessTheUnstill It is a mess. In my professional life it is a continuous PITA to double check the branch name containing ground truth.

19 Oct 2023 at 19:50 | Open on nrw.social

Steven Reed

@markuswerle
Ironically my usually change resistant brain has apparently adapted to GitHub's changed default and now gets confused by vanilla git's 'master.' I wonder if there's a way of setting something in .git/config to indicate what's in use? I think I've also seen ways to create symlink-like aliases with refs
..
@letsbekind2 @JessTheUnstill

19 Oct 2023 at 19:59 | Open on mas.to

Markus Werle

@srtcd424 @letsbekind2 @JessTheUnstill ```
git ls-remote --symref origin HEAD
```

19 Oct 2023 at 20:04 | Open on nrw.social

aneristic delusion

@srtcd424

git config --global init.defaultBranch $NAME

I prefer to set it to dev to piss off everyone, including people who use devel.

@markuswerle @letsbekind2 @JessTheUnstill

19 Oct 2023 at 21:27 | Open on akko.hollow.capital

Steven Reed

@markuswerle
My thinking recently has been that one should "criticise" large scale / public language use, but dial back on doing that for individual private (ish) speech unless the words used are serious slurs. It's really complex area I think in various ways. Apart from anything else not all English speaking countries have the same histories so may not have the same degree of sensitivity on a given issue.
@JessTheUnstill

19 Oct 2023 at 19:52 | Open on mas.to

Orc

@markuswerle @JessTheUnstill "main" is a much more accurate term that "master". "Baseline" might be better, but either that or "main" works.

Why are you worked up about the old default name?

19 Oct 2023 at 20:56 | Open on eightpoint.app

Markus Werle

@orc @JessTheUnstill Because of the hypocrisy that accompanied the change.

19 Oct 2023 at 21:29 | Open on nrw.social

Orc

@markuswerle @JessTheUnstill "Hypocrisy"

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

(come to think of it, neither does "master".)

Have a nice life, dude.

19 Oct 2023 at 21:43 | Open on eightpoint.app

Jess👾

@markuswerle @orc
I mean, you could have just led with "I only support changes that I in my white male wisdom have deemed 'worthy' of my time." I could have much more quickly discovered that you aren't an ally, will ALWAYS deem anything that inconvenience you as "unworthy", and in my white trans lesbian wisdom have decided you aren't worthy of my continued interaction. Goodbye.

19 Oct 2023 at 22:06 | Open on infosec.exchange

Steven Reed

@JessTheUnstill
Agree on master/slave (though my middle age brain does struggle with change). I think master on its own eg in the git case has a different derivation - typists and even scribes have talked about "master copies" etc for a long time. Same in the recording industry. That said, I think svn's "trunk" was probably clearer in this context.

19 Oct 2023 at 19:47 | Open on mas.to

Halligan

@JessTheUnstill Also, Attacker (or adversary) in the Middle (AiTM) for Man in the Middle (MiTM)

19 Oct 2023 at 20:55 | Open on infosec.exchange

@JessTheUnstill > Active/standby is going to be more clear about the roles and responsibilities of the various servers.

so that's what those words in that context mean! 👀

19 Oct 2023 at 21:24 | Open on mycrowd.ca

DELETED

@JessTheUnstill last time I tried to bring this up in an open source software project, the response from an excessively privileged white male was "u r injecting racism" which is strange as they came up with all this race nonsense and injected it everywhere.

20 Oct 2023 at 3:46 | Open on mstdn.ca

Jess👾

@manas
Which is a big part of why, when I'm looking for something to put my free time into, I look for orgs with lots of minorities in leadership roles.

20 Oct 2023 at 5:33 | Open on infosec.exchange

@JessTheUnstill I don’t disagree with the naming, but “active/standby” is less clear to me. Because that indicates a failover, which is not always the role of a replica.

For example, I’ve got the primary copy, failovers in active replication, then multiple query replicas that have specific functions to handle query/read processing via query direction with ProxySQL.

And having worked with Active-Active databases, I’m even less inclined with that description. Primary? Write?

Dunno. Terminology is hard.

@JessTheUnstill I don’t disagree with the naming, but “active/standby” is less clear to me. Because that indicates a failover, which is not always the role of a replica.

For example, I’ve got the primary copy, failovers in active replication, then multiple query replicas that have specific functions to handle query/read processing via query direction with ProxySQL.

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20 Oct 2023 at 13:46 | Open on hackers.town