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Evan Prodromou

So, if I were going to make a tech manifesto, it might be something like:

- protocols not platforms
- coops and unions
- technology should not actively hurt us
- people not users
- seven generations, seven continents
- free markets require antitrust enforcement

31 comments
Anna Nyulund

@evan I didn't bother reading it. Kinda tired of Silicon Valley's philosophical whims that are not useful or enlightening. It's just a bunch of boys thinking that they are intelligent producing nonsense for applause.

Brennan Stehling

@evan I'd prefer a model which is not as adversarial as unions are. The "co-determination” system in Germany is a good system where workers elect representatives to a company's supervisory board. This way the direction of the company and policies are directly influenced by workers. The current system the US has where workers must go on strike without pay for weeks or months to get fair contracts is harmful to workers as we saw with the writers strike.

By law, companies with more than 2,000 employees must have an equal number of worker elected representatives on the board. This reduces the friction between workers and management while ensuring workers have a voice and significant influence.

@evan I'd prefer a model which is not as adversarial as unions are. The "co-determination” system in Germany is a good system where workers elect representatives to a company's supervisory board. This way the direction of the company and policies are directly influenced by workers. The current system the US has where workers must go on strike without pay for weeks or months to get fair contracts is harmful to workers as we saw with the writers strike.

Andy Lundell 🙄

@brennansv @evan That all sounds good so long as the workers retain their ability to strike if it all falls apart on them.

jon ⚝

@brennansv @evan Also the legal form dubbed 'worker coop' in the UK doesn't exist in many other legislations.

Here in the EU, if not trying to harmonise cooperative legislation, there are attempts at new legal forms where shared ownership is a mandatory quality.

So far the cooperatives movement has found different implementations throughout the globe, and we need to learn a lot more from each other how to use existing and advocate for new legal forms for fruitful ecosystems.

steelman

@brennansv Mitbestimmungsgesetz has been established after unions threatened with strikes and in most cases unions take part in this process.
@evan

Escaping Galt's Gorean Gulch

@brennansv @evan why not 100% worker control so we don't have to negotiate with capital?

Mary Branscombe

@brennansv @evan unions are only as adversarial as management makes them be

H

@evan I like these. Are you able to explain "seven generations, seven continents" a bit more please?

esmevane, sorry

@u24 @evan agreed, this is the first I’m hearing this phrase

Evan Prodromou

@ironchamber @u24 I made it up. "Seven generations" is a term that means thinking three generations backwards and three forwards. Seven continents is one way of dividing up the world, meaning, don't just think of the US and maybe Europe.

Jason Brooks

@evan @ironchamber @u24 Ah, I got the generations bit, but was googling for the continents part

Mary Branscombe

@evan @ironchamber @u24 ROW

Genevieve Bell tells a wonderful story about arriving at Intel unsure exactly what they want an anthropologist for and discovering they want someone to explain 'women' and 'rest of world' which she sums up as 'everyone who doesn't work here'

Brendan Jones

@evan @ironchamber @u24 Out of curiosity, where does the 3 forwards/3 backwards concept originate? And when one thinks 3 generations backwards, what would you have them think about?

Also an FYI that this competing 7-generations concept exists and is what I thought you might have meant: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_ge

Rigo Wenning

@evan this definitely sounds like a psychopath, from a silicon valley point of view 😜

bignose

@evan is definitely on Andreessen's "enemies" list, @rigo

Andrew :fediverse:

@evan

> free markets require antitrust enforcement

THANK YOU

Merlin Rebrović

@evan I just saw a comment about a completely different topic, but it matches perfectly with your proposal:

"This is too much like common sense, rationality, and compassion. Totally won't fly." 🙂

Also, my thoughts on the manifesto: mas.to/@merlinrebrovic/1112504

Derek Caelin 🌱

@evan what does "seven generations" refer to? Or should I wait for the manifesto!

Derek Caelin 🌱

@Brendanjones @evan Thanks! What an idea, click around and explore more before asking a question! 😅

Fully agree with the sentiment. It's a challenge to think about "generations" given how emphemoral software is, but maybe that's the point.

Sean Bala

@Brendanjones @derek @evan

Seven Generations is a term in some cultures that indicates long-term thinking.

I think Evan is drawing from an Indigenous / First Nations understanding. It means that you need to think about the impacts of your decisions for the next 7 generations.

But 7 generations is also found in the Judeo-Christian tradition. In the Bible, seven generations is a stand-in for eternity or a really long time. And in India, you get married for 7 lifetimes (basically forever).

Brendan Jones

@evan @ntnsndr I like, though “technology should not actively hurt us” feels a bit like a bare minimum! Surely that requirement can be raised higher, and maybe framed positively.

Also something about non-human impact would be nice, something about minimising material & energy footprint.

Dogzilla

@evan @ritawho But the reality is the world doesn’t need *any* tech manifestos period. They’re all just techies masturbating in public and expecting praise. Maybe just focus on not enshittifying the world instead.

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