Gregory's Server
 52 comments
Hermes
This message has more impact than at any other time in the history of the human race. It is no exaggeration, we are living in the Information Age. It has always been wise to dig deeper, after all, history is written by the victor. But now, we have the library of the world at our fingertips, in the form of the Net. Yet along with this miracle, is an avalanche of disinformation. It is more important than ever to be diligent in searching for the truth, no matter what your ideology.
David A. Dutton
@GordonIsenburg @ned this is why countries need to start passing laws making spreading disinformation a criminal act
ScrooLewse
@ddutton @GordonIsenburg @ned of course you'd have to set it up somehow so that the state isn't in charge of what constitutes misinformation or we're literally just creating a plain old police state
Big_in_Va
@ned @WarnerCrocker so why do we keep having to rename things like buildings, streets and holidays and the such. I don’t get it history even though there’s bad it can’t be changed. 
Big_in_Va
@WarnerCrocker I think we should leave the things alone that make us all uncomfortable to avoid repeating some of the same mistakes that caused them. To many times I have seen things changed that people had no clue they were supposed to be offended by. The economic costs sometimes are not worth the benefits from what I have seen done so far. I always think of this my friend when these things are happening then rely on my faith to guide me. https://youtu.be/KqpcmQhnl48 
Dr. Mastodonocologist
@big_in_va @WarnerCrocker
Big_in_Va
@Okanogen @WarnerCrocker I understand that perspective but, I think in those cases then what should be done and I haven’t seen done in my area, is that a notation should be added to whatever was renamed because of the offensive act or cause the previous person represented. If we try to erase or cover up history bad, good or otherwise we are doomed to repeat it. My parents generation fought WWII to eradicate so much terrible evil and yet I hear people denying the atrocities they fought against. Very sad.
Dr. Mastodonocologist
@big_in_va @WarnerCrocker
Ray
@Okanogen @big_in_va @WarnerCrocker Precisely. Changing a street or building name to no longer honor a confederate general isn’t altering history and it’s just dishonest to say so. They’re traitors, they don’t get buildings or statues. A lot of those places were named in the modern era by descendants and supporters of the Confederacy anyway. It’s not historical, it’s celebratory.
Ray
@Okanogen @big_in_va @WarnerCrocker My family has always been in the south (well, since we were brought there) and to this day we have to grow up driving on roads, attending schools, and passing by statues dedicated to people who literally thought we were subhuman and deserved to be enslaved. It’s cruel and it’s wrong. These monuments are part of an active campaign to rewrite history and that can’t be forgotten. They’re not just some “historical” thing that can’t be changed.
Warner Crocker
@lawas @Okanogen @big_in_va Been watching this discussion with great interest. I have a few thoughts. As the USSR was being dismantled I happened to be witness to the statue of Felix Dzerzhinsky being torn down. A much older and wiser Russian theatre colleague was with me and said at the time something along the lines of "getting rid of all of these statues and symbols won’t change the horrible things they did. But../1
Warner Crocker
@lawas @Okanogen @big_in_va it will make it easier for the next guys to take advantage of those with shorter memories.” And here we are. I hate to use the word balance in a conversation like this, but I think there is a balance to be achieved so that we remember and honor the good and remember and learn from the bad when it comes to these issues. Monument, street names, city names, heck, even memoirs aren’t handed down by any divine right, /2
Warner Crocker
@lawas @Okanogen @big_in_va but are established and written by someone for a purpose or a cause. I’m all for removing and changing things when the purpose or cause is to acknowledge bad choices in the past. That said, removing and renaming is no more or less a symbol than erecting or establishing the thing in the first place. Acknowledge and remember it all, the good and the bad. /3
Warner Crocker
@lawas @Okanogen @big_in_va There are ways to do both, but it requires setting aside passion and ego to look for better solutions. /end
Dr. Mastodonocologist replied to Warner
@WarnerCrocker @lawas @big_in_va
Warner Crocker replied to Dr.
@Okanogen @lawas @big_in_va I absolutely agree. Like I said, I hated to use the word balance and was not attempting to both sides the issue of changing names, monuments, etc… That wasn’t my point.
Dr. Mastodonocologist replied to Warner
@WarnerCrocker @lawas @big_in_va
Warner Crocker replied to Dr.
@Okanogen @lawas @big_in_va Sure. Will do. Out of a good portion of the evening but when I’m back at the computer happy to be more specific and clear.
benny replied to Warner
@WarnerCrocker @lawas @Okanogen @big_in_va Being German I am glad I don't have to live with Hitler streets and statues or any other swastika devorations (there are still some, thoufh mainly hidden from the public).
Dr. Mastodonocologist
@WarnerCrocker @lawas @big_in_va
Warner Crocker
@Okanogen @lawas @big_in_va Some In this country haven’t come to grips with the sins of our past as they have done in Germany. Plain and simple. It’s why I issue my twice weekly reminder that we’re still in a Civil War. 
ClipHead replied to ClipHead
@big_in_va But you can change names and destroy monuments of people who led to the death of millions! And you definitely should do this! But then you must be ACTIVELY anti-fascist, educate everyone...and punch Nazis as soon as they try to creep out of their holes. Otherwise you are normalizing this shit again. Greetings from Cologne!
benny
@Okanogen @WarnerCrocker @lawas @big_in_va the readon being mainly US and USSR soldiers, to be honest. I learned recently there are still Franco streets in Spain, where fascism has not been defeated by war.
Dr. Mastodonocologist replied to benny
@benny @WarnerCrocker @lawas @big_in_va
CrowGlittering5133
@Okanogen @big_in_va @WarnerCrocker Yes, it's true. However if we could do that then we could also rename things to avoid shaming people that we need to stop shaming. For example we could rename the USA to avoid making the USA seem like Amerigo Vespucci's fault. Like ... the United States of the United States or somesuch./srs
Greg Titus
@big_in_va @ned @WarnerCrocker Because naming buildings, streets and holidays aren't just history. They are also forms of recognition and celebration. Which parts of history we choose to celebrate and which parts we choose to condemn say a lot about us. We can learn all about the parts we condemn without also naming streets after them.
Big_in_Va
@gregtitus @ned @WarnerCrocker agreed and that’s why I like the policy a local jurisdiction recently adopted. They proposed renaming a road and after public comment residents and businesses that were located on the hundreds of them as a matter of fact the jurisdiction adopted a common sense approach. Leave the name alone but going forward never name streets or roads after people to avoid the problem for future generations.
cui bono baby?
@big_in_va @ned @WarnerCrocker street names etc aren't history. In fact quite often they are distortions of history in that they honor people without providing the facts of who they actually were.  
CrowGlittering5133
@ned How nice to be moved, together with all mankind, by children running on the grass!/s Credit: Kundera. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitsch#Analysis#Kitsch_in_Milan_Kundera's_The_Unbearable_Lightness_of_Being 
Stefen Auris
@ned imagine how uncomfortable your own life history is, now apply that to the entire population. history is UNCOMFY!!
David Frank
@ned @shanecelis great quote, but the most amazing thing is, it appears to be original?! A Google on the exact phrase point me to mastodon posts. |
@ned ,100% ,
Nor Can Human Beings Learn From Its Religious , Political, Media, & Histories Failings & Open Uncomfortable Honest Dialogue & Education & Self Awareness 🤔 😞