Email or username:

Password:

Forgot your password?
Sindarina, Edge Case Detective's posts Post Back to profile
Sindarina, Edge Case Detective

The Guardian is an important source of news in English-language Europe, but continues its practice of platforming TERF rhetoric on a regular basis. Until this stops, and they apologise for this behaviour, you should not support them financially.

#DontPayTheGuardian
#SindaRepost
26 Feb 2023 at 3:56 | Open on ngmx.com
34 comments
Kent Steinbrenner (he/him)

@sindarina I’m beginning to wonder if there’s any mainstream British media outlet or opinion writer that hasn’t succumbed to TERFiness in one form or another, what with their ridiculous rants against the Scottish gender identity bill (among others). I naïvely thought the ol’ Grauniad wouldn’t have been swept up in that sort of thing. Who poisoned the water over there, besides She Who Must Not Be Named? 🙄

26 Feb 2023 at 5:52 | Open on spore.social
Sindarina, Edge Case Detective

OK, time to expand on this with a thread, and explain why The Guardian has been a platform for TERF rhetoric for many, many years, and why you shouldn't give them any money whatsoever until they acknowledge it as a problem, fix it, and then make amends.

1) Julie Bindel, who was a TERF before Twitter was a thing, still has a home there. Here's one of her screeds, from 2004;

theguardian.com/world/2004/jan

#DontPayTheGuardian

—

This is an updated thread, since the earlier version on .lol, from mid-December of 2022, will disappear, and there's more information to add.

OK, time to expand on this with a thread, and explain why The Guardian has been a platform for TERF rhetoric for many, many years, and why you shouldn't give them any money whatsoever until they acknowledge it as a problem, fix it, and then make amends.

1) Julie Bindel, who was a TERF before Twitter was a thing, still has a home there. Here's one of her screeds, from 2004;

11 Mar 2023 at 0:55 | Open on ngmx.com
Sindarina, Edge Case Detective

But wait, you say, that's just opinion pieces, anyone can publish those. Surely that's not the fault of The Guardian?

I disagree, and think you need to go do some homework, but there's more;

2) Sonia Sodha, the chief leader writer at the Observer, and also a columnist. You can find her work here;

theguardian.com/profile/sonia-

With gems like;

theguardian.com/commentisfree/
theguardian.com/commentisfree/
theguardian.com/commentisfree/

And she's not the only one, either. Here's Susanna Rustin, a Guardian leader writer;

theguardian.com/profile/susann

#DontPayTheGuardian

But wait, you say, that's just opinion pieces, anyone can publish those. Surely that's not the fault of The Guardian?

I disagree, and think you need to go do some homework, but there's more;

2) Sonia Sodha, the chief leader writer at the Observer, and also a columnist. You can find her work here;

theguardian.com/profile/sonia-

11 Mar 2023 at 0:59 | Open on ngmx.com
Sindarina, Edge Case Detective

Well, I hear you think, that's still just two people, publishing opinion pieces, despite being on The Guardian's payroll. Do you have anything ... stronger?

3) In March of 2020, hundreds of Guardian staffers signed a letter condemning the pattern;

buzzfeed.com/patrickstrudwick/

4) The Guardian removed part of an interview in which Judith Butler calls TERFism one of the dominant strains of fascism;

thepinknews.com/2021/09/08/jud
huffpost.com/entry/guardian-ju

5) The former deputy editor of The Guardian, Ian Katz, was married to the co-founder of TERF forum Mumsnet, Justine Roberts;

judedoyle.medium.com/so-a-top-

#DontPayTheGuardian

Well, I hear you think, that's still just two people, publishing opinion pieces, despite being on The Guardian's payroll. Do you have anything ... stronger?

3) In March of 2020, hundreds of Guardian staffers signed a letter condemning the pattern;

buzzfeed.com/patrickstrudwick/

11 Mar 2023 at 1:00 | Open on ngmx.com
Sindarina, Edge Case Detective

So what do I want to accomplish, with a hashtag like this? Should you stop linking to The Guardian entirely, like some people are advocating?

No, I don't think so. For one, none of the mainstream media sources available are innocent in this, and while I would encourage you to find other sources to link to, it's not always possible.

Instead, if you are, stop supporting their 'independent journalism'. Stop paying them. That's it. Hit them in their wallet.

And maybe, if you link, use the hashtag;

#DontPayTheGuardian

So what do I want to accomplish, with a hashtag like this? Should you stop linking to The Guardian entirely, like some people are advocating?

No, I don't think so. For one, none of the mainstream media sources available are innocent in this, and while I would encourage you to find other sources to link to, it's not always possible.

11 Mar 2023 at 1:01 | Open on ngmx.com
Sindarina, Edge Case Detective

Oh, and here's another one, from three Guardian US staffers, taking an issue with The Guardian UK's trans rights coverage, in 2018;

theguardian.com/commentisfree/

"We should work to hire trans people on staff. And our journalism should be grounded in the principle that trans women are women, and that trans people should have the right to feel safe to live as themselves.”

It's a long list, and if you are still surprised by this in 2023, you haven't been paying attention, and should ask yourself why it has escaped you for this long.

#DontPayTheGuardian

Oh, and here's another one, from three Guardian US staffers, taking an issue with The Guardian UK's trans rights coverage, in 2018;

theguardian.com/commentisfree/

"We should work to hire trans people on staff. And our journalism should be grounded in the principle that trans women are women, and that trans people should have the right to feel safe to live as themselves.”

11 Mar 2023 at 1:43 | Open on ngmx.com
OrpheusandEurydice

@sindarina, the Guardian is publishing the criticism themselves. Have the debate, but don't nobble them.

22 Mar 2023 at 3:47 | Open on mastodon.au
Sindarina, Edge Case Detective

For those who argue that The Guardian is one of the few left-wing news sources left, and therefore deserves their support, a reminder that platforming TERF rhetoric has been rather profitable, for them;

"The Scott Trust has historically given Guardian Media Group access to a cash injection of up to £30m a year. The latest financial accounts, which cover the 12 months to April 2022, show that Guardian Media Group performed so well it instead produced a cash surplus of £6.7m."

theguardian.com/media/2022/jul

Don't pay them a cent until they change their behaviour, and acknowledge harm done.

#DontPayTheGuardian

For those who argue that The Guardian is one of the few left-wing news sources left, and therefore deserves their support, a reminder that platforming TERF rhetoric has been rather profitable, for them;

"The Scott Trust has historically given Guardian Media Group access to a cash injection of up to £30m a year. The latest financial accounts, which cover the 12 months to April 2022, show that Guardian Media Group performed so well it instead produced a cash surplus of £6.7m."

1 Apr 2023 at 16:54 | Open on ngmx.com
Sindarina, Edge Case Detective

“But the most noticeable missteps stem not from the news pages but from the editorial column. For it is here that readers find out what the paper thinks about the great issues of the day.”

That's what they wrote at their second centennial, two years ago, listing their ‘worst errors of judgment’;

theguardian.com/media/2021/may

Two decades of platforming TERF rhetoric was not on the list, and still isn’t.

#DontPayTheGuardian
#TransRightsAreHumanRights

“But the most noticeable missteps stem not from the news pages but from the editorial column. For it is here that readers find out what the paper thinks about the great issues of the day.”

That's what they wrote at their second centennial, two years ago, listing their ‘worst errors of judgment’;

theguardian.com/media/2021/may

1 Apr 2023 at 17:24 | Open on ngmx.com
Sindarina, Edge Case Detective

They are making some progress on old harms, though;

"The owner of the Guardian has issued an apology for the role the newspaper’s founders had in transatlantic slavery and announced a decade-long programme of restorative justice.”

theguardian.com/news/2023/mar/

Point by point explainer;

theguardian.com/news/2023/mar/

And a long read by David Olusoga;

theguardian.com/news/ng-intera

Includes a fund for reparations, although £10m isn't a whole lot for its intended scope.

#Reparations
#DontPayTheGuardian

They are making some progress on old harms, though;

"The owner of the Guardian has issued an apology for the role the newspaper’s founders had in transatlantic slavery and announced a decade-long programme of restorative justice.”

theguardian.com/news/2023/mar/

1 Apr 2023 at 17:36 | Open on ngmx.com
Alexander Hay

@sindarina It's easy to apologise on behalf of dead people who got away 'Scott' free with mistreating other deaf people.

8 Apr 2023 at 22:05 | Open on mastodon.social
Sindarina, Edge Case Detective

Every now and then, when I tell people to stop paying for The Guardian until they cease platforming TERF rhetoric, they object, claiming that left-leaning news should be supported.

Well, here’s the latest results of their tactics, in terms of revenue;

"The Guardian’s parent company made record revenues for its news business last year as the group hired new staff and pushed for further international growth.”

theguardian.com/media/2023/jul

Don't pay The Guardian, folks. If you want more detail, scroll up ⬆️

#DontPayTheGuardian

Every now and then, when I tell people to stop paying for The Guardian until they cease platforming TERF rhetoric, they object, claiming that left-leaning news should be supported.

Well, here’s the latest results of their tactics, in terms of revenue;

"The Guardian’s parent company made record revenues for its news business last year as the group hired new staff and pushed for further international growth.”
30 Jul 2023 at 19:16 | Open on ngmx.com
Sindarina, Edge Case Detective

The Guardian also updated its editorial code this week, for the first time since 2011, so naturally I wondered if that contained any improvements;

theguardian.com/commentisfree/

Item 12, “Discrimination and incitement to hatred”, states the following;

“i) Journalists must avoid prejudicial or pejorative reference to an individual’s race, colour, ethnicity, nationality, religion, age, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, disability, or to any physical or mental illness.”

I wonder if that applies to their opinion pieces, though, and they asterisk for exceptions when it's ‘in the public interest’.

We’ll see.

#DontPayTheGuardian

The Guardian also updated its editorial code this week, for the first time since 2011, so naturally I wondered if that contained any improvements;

theguardian.com/commentisfree/

Item 12, “Discrimination and incitement to hatred”, states the following;

30 Jul 2023 at 19:24 | Open on ngmx.com
I said too much :blobfoxdead: replied to Sindarina, Edge Case Detective

@sindarina

However, by linking to the Grauniad you are giving them clicks.
Dump the Guardian

Avoid this by changing:

https:// www.theguardian.com/<restofurl>

to

https:// www.dumptheguardian.com/<restofurl>
e.g.

dumptheguardian.com/commentisf

30 Jul 2023 at 20:03 | Open on tech.lgbt
Sindarina, Edge Case Detective replied to I said too much :blobfoxdead:

@essjay I am aware of its existence, and don't care for it. See also this part of the thread you're replying to; ngmx.com/@sindarina/1100019478

30 Jul 2023 at 20:08 | Open on ngmx.com
I said too much :blobfoxdead: replied to Sindarina, Edge Case Detective
Sindarina, Edge Case Detective replied to I said too much :blobfoxdead:

@essjay 1) Their reasoning revolves around Jeremy Corbyn and Julian Assange. I don't give a fuck about either of them.

2) They advocate using screenshot over linking, which is an accessibility nightmare.

3) I link directly to the source, when I quote the source, or don't link to it at all. Using some third party that uses the Internet Archive, does not help me in the slightest.

If you want to use that sort of thing, be my guest, but the goal here is to get people to stop paying them, not linking to them when they have coverage that is either good, or deserving of criticism.

Source for the above;

theguardian.fivefilters.org/ho

@essjay 1) Their reasoning revolves around Jeremy Corbyn and Julian Assange. I don't give a fuck about either of them.

2) They advocate using screenshot over linking, which is an accessibility nightmare.

3) I link directly to the source, when I quote the source, or don't link to it at all. Using some third party that uses the Internet Archive, does not help me in the slightest.

30 Jul 2023 at 20:27 | Open on ngmx.com
Jeri Dansky

@sindarina I stopped paying for The Guardian because of their TERF rhetoric. I hesitated a bit, because it does so much good reporting, but I decided the TERF stuff was a red line for me.

If the new editorial code actually means no more TERF rhetoric, I'll gladly resume paying. But I wonder how that will happen unless there's a change in the staff.

31 Jul 2023 at 1:34 | Open on sfba.social
Sindarina, Edge Case Detective replied to Jeri

@jeridansky Yeah, they would need to own up to it, in public, before I reconsider, and probably fire some of the people on their UK staff.

31 Jul 2023 at 3:31 | Open on ngmx.com
Kavana Ramaswamy

@sindarina
Left wing ha. They're the ones who published the millionaires' "threat" to leave the UK if Jeremy Corbyn won the election way back in 2019.

8 Apr 2023 at 20:54 | Open on scholar.social
treason commitress :red_flag:

@sindarina "that a man has the right to sunbathe naked in his own garden"

you know it's funny she brings this up as an example of the abuse of the law given that this is pretty... sensible

30 Jul 2023 at 21:53 | Open on polyglot.city
treason commitress :red_flag:

@sindarina also: "and hormonally grown breasts"

... how else do you think breast are grown?

30 Jul 2023 at 21:58 | Open on polyglot.city
tesseraph

@sindarina I have a complicated relationship to this as an American trans woman with a Guardian subscription. I really like the Guardian US coverage (good, well-funded, actually politically left newspapers are few and far between) and they're firmly pro-trans liberation whereas every time I peek over to the UK side the transphobia is startling. I'd never pay for the Guardian if Guardian UK was all they had. I wonder about whether it'd be possible to do an EU and UK subscriber revolt without harming the branches of the Guardian that aren't fetid like the UK one is or does it have to be a global revolt for it to work? I appreciate your stance: I just don't know what my role should be...

@sindarina I have a complicated relationship to this as an American trans woman with a Guardian subscription. I really like the Guardian US coverage (good, well-funded, actually politically left newspapers are few and far between) and they're firmly pro-trans liberation whereas every time I peek over to the UK side the transphobia is startling. I'd never pay for the Guardian if Guardian UK was all they had. I wonder about whether it'd be possible to do an EU and UK subscriber revolt without harming...

11 Mar 2023 at 2:33 | Open on fandom.garden
Sindarina, Edge Case Detective

@Tessa They don't need your money, though, platforming TERFs has been quite profitable for them;

theguardian.com/media/2022/jul

Also, given the evidence presented, it’s pretty clear that the only effective way to affect change is through the cancellation of subscriptions, especially if everyone who cancels specifically mentions that as the reason.

There is no paywall, so you’d still have the same access as before. Just without contributing to the salaries of the bad apples on staff, or their leadership.

@Tessa They don't need your money, though, platforming TERFs has been quite profitable for them;

theguardian.com/media/2022/jul

Also, given the evidence presented, it’s pretty clear that the only effective way to affect change is through the cancellation of subscriptions, especially if everyone who cancels specifically mentions that as the reason.

11 Mar 2023 at 2:40 | Open on ngmx.com
Sindarina, Edge Case Detective

@Tessa Read the rest of the thread, basically, including this bit 🙂 ngmx.com/@sindarina/1100019478

11 Mar 2023 at 2:53 | Open on ngmx.com
tesseraph

@sindarina Welp, I did it. Added your hashtag to the end of it, too :sparklesTrans:​

11 Mar 2023 at 22:34 | Open on fandom.garden
OrpheusandEurydice

@sindarina with so few left-leaning mainstream news sources, I can't support this approach,

I don't believe the Guardian has an anti-trans bias & it deserves to be supported.

22 Mar 2023 at 3:44 | Open on mastodon.au
Tattie (old account)

@OrpheusandEurydice
*Sees a huge list of blatant transphobia*
"I don't believe they're transphobic"
Well, fuck you then.
@sindarina

2 Apr 2023 at 22:45 | Open on mastodon.scot
Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE

@sindarina I haven't supported the Guardian since they turned #brexshitter.

23 May 2023 at 11:46 | Open on c.im
thomkennon

@sindarina yeah, I count my days of increasing clarity and informed radicalism starting with purging them and all other corporate/state media from my daily diet. :)

24 May 2023 at 10:32 | Open on mastodon.social
Sadderp 🇮🇪 🇪🇺🇫🇷

@sindarina The Guardian have now put a limit on how many views. No idea how many? They just informed me I have to wait 25 days to return to their app. Maybe because I live in France? I can use a VPN to disguise my lp address but have decided not to bother reading for now. Just get frustrated by lack of critical thinking and their propaganda promoting the establishment.

30 Jul 2023 at 20:06 | Open on mindly.social
Sindarina, Edge Case Detective

@Sadderp Not seen that from here in the Netherlands, so no idea what that's about, sorry 🙂

30 Jul 2023 at 20:10 | Open on ngmx.com
Sadderp 🇮🇪 🇪🇺🇫🇷

@sindarina Perhaps you haven't visited enough? I visited maybe 5 times a day.

30 Jul 2023 at 20:16 | Open on mindly.social
Sindarina, Edge Case Detective

@Sadderp It's one of my main news sources, but I filter in an RSS reader first, so perhaps I don't hit any sort of cap for that reason.

30 Jul 2023 at 20:19 | Open on ngmx.com
Go Up