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codl dead hands

every now and then someone makes a post like "fedi culture is getting 8 boosts and 20 likes and going 'ohh this is doing numbers' lol lmao. numbers tiny" and like i get it but also if 20 people came up to me and said "i liked it when you said that, well done" and 8 of those people were like "can i get some copies of this so i can show it to all my friends?" id be stoked

55 comments
codl dead hands

like greek philosopher descartes once said, when you fave me you are effectively throwing a treat into my mouth

Niclas Hedhman

@codl
Well, Descartes was French, but maybe you tried to be subtly sarcastic in the paraphrase

Whitney Loblaw

@codl I hope that you don't mind that I made and disseminated numerous copies of the above to show my friends without your prior approval ?
You are of course credited on said distributed copies.

Velvet dessine (p r o u t πŸ’¨)

@codl hahaha! This is very true! Also, you get much more actual interactions from those "tiny numbers" than any big social mdia imo

𝖓
@RoseThorndyke @codl Yeah, I commented something similar on a recent post I saw about it.
I've got way less followers here than on twitter (on this or my art account), so less boots or likes most of the time (not always), but way more comments, feedbacks, discussions, etc.
Overall, waaaay more pleasant here.
Opalium

@codl Mainstream social media makes us really devalue the meaning behind those numbers.

It's like how YouTube videos are only considered "successful" if they are at least in the hundreds of thousands or even millions of viewers. Can you visualize a million people? Can we even grasp what this number means?

Hell, I recently had a post with over a hundred reactions. Over one hundred humans who enjoy my rambling. That's insane.

I'm glad Mastodon is helping us put things into perspective again.

Mad A. Argon :qurio:

@opalium @codl I mentioned in talk with my family members that one of my photos was popular some day.
They: How many likes?
Me: Above 40 now.
They: I thought few thousand...
Me: WTF :blobCat_disturbed:

# Fedi scale is only one I personally know well.

Opalium

@madargon @codl I know right? What's wrong with 40?!

It's fascinating how the collective understanding of 'successful' has changed over time. Extreme numbers are the norm now, and the whole world revolves around it now.

Smolcasm

@codl i mean, yeah, i can believe a room full of people occasionally liking something i said and maybe even sharing my remark with others

but i can't properly conceptualize a stadium of people cheering at something i said or did. it just doesn't seem realistic

Bard
I feel more well known and appreciated on my tiny corner of Fedi with these numbers than I do about the one AMV I made over a decade ago that has tens of thousands of views on YouTube.

Each of these little numbers has so much more value.
OcΓ©an

@codl i liked it when you said that, well done

Tomas Ekeli

@codl and those 20 people are real people. not 5000 bots.

Poytin

@codl The internet has really warped most peoples' sense of scale. It's an odd phenomenon.

elFlashor

@codl These numbers are only tiny to people who can't think with anything than ever growing capitalistic numbers, always more, always bigger, always chasing an ever-evading growing goal of owning more and making more money out of it!

To us "mere mortals", it's always a treat, however small these numbers are 😁

tyil

@codl@chitter.xyz If I get even a single person telling me over #IRC/#Matrix/whatever that they read my blog post and they liked it, I'm already happy. I rather have 1 real person enjoying what I make than a million bots who just make an API call and never truly engage over it.

That's what makes the
#Fediverse a nice place to me, there's less interactions, but they're all with real people, making them much more meaningful.

Anna Nicholson

@codl I love your analogy 😊

The centralised β€˜social media’ platforms are really *antisocial* – they are geared to make us crave β€˜engagement’ so they can feed us more ads

If you’ve spent years in that kind of environment, the human scale of the fediverse can come as a bit of a culture shock

Sadly, some people who come here give up and go straight back into the torture chamber because it’s familiar to them

It took me three attempts to kick the Twitter habit, and though I do still miss the real friends I made there who haven’t left, I’m much happier for it!

@codl I love your analogy 😊

The centralised β€˜social media’ platforms are really *antisocial* – they are geared to make us crave β€˜engagement’ so they can feed us more ads

If you’ve spent years in that kind of environment, the human scale of the fediverse can come as a bit of a culture shock

Sadly, some people who come here give up and go straight back into the torture chamber because it’s familiar to them

ClaraBlackInk

@transponderings @codl Success is also not so much numbers driven as niche driven.

Gaining recognition within your niche community, interacting with people within that base is often worth more than going viral and having people who don't like, engage with or understand what you're doing respond to your work dishonestly (trolling, utilizing it for their own engagement numbers).

Anna Nicholson

@clarablackink @codl Yes, though I’d say it’s more about being a part of a community in that case rather than becoming niche-famous – and that’s difficult to do on platforms that are overrun with bots and trolls

ailepet

@codl I don't think I ever had 20 likes on something I've posted in my life, except my Harry DuBois cosplay pics in r/discoelysium

Cat

@codl My most numbersy tweet got 14,822 likes. My most numbersy toot got... 42 faves.

But I genuinely feel like the people who faved the latter meant it more.

Janeishly

@codl This - also, at this point I don't actually care about likes or shares any more, I just don't want my feed full of hate. The fediverse does that for me.

aaron

@codl
So true, and also a bellwether when something gets no interaction and you're like "okay I need to review what I fucked up there" :think_eyes:

LJ

@codl absolutely!! I don't think we're wired for that much attention & reach. At least it's overwhelming for me to even think about 'going viral'. Yikes!

lizard appreciator

@codl i don't make that post but i do joke about it elsewhere and yeah same feelings

codl dead hands

of course my post about how 20 likes is a lot actually would absolutely blow up like this

jsyk i muted the thread

Quenby (they/them)

@codl after having a few posts on Twitter "do numbers" I'm happy that now I only get attention from people who wanted to see my post.

I'm fine with 3-50 boosts. I'm fine with zero boosts and 10 likes too.

Someone :suckless:

@codl This reminds me of what @chriswere said in his PeerTube channel at some point, "if I made a speech and fifty people came to see it, I'd be floored".

But I think this attitude comes from the difference between the way people interact with content here compare to mainstream social media.

Someone :suckless:

@codl Our network is divided into specialized communities, so when somebody wants to talk about a certain topic there is a good chance instance members are invested in the topic so they are more willing to engage in a conversation with the original poster, and when they boost it the topic arrives to other people in different instances who are also interested in the subject.

Someone :suckless:

@codl In mainstream social media on the other hand people just sort of scroll away, a lot of them don't pay a ton of attention to the content they are viewing. Most they usually do is drop a like and move on to the next thing, and sometimes they don't even bother with a like. This is what makes the large numbers on big platforms so worthless. You can gather a ton of views and likes but only around 3% of that actually wants to have a discussion with you.

Someone :suckless:

@codl Because for most people the content is just "kinda cool". It's neat to see it pop up when they are mindlessly scrolling to pass time but often it isn't a subject they are super passionate about.

joel b

@codl remember there is no engagement algorithm. Comparing β€˜numbers’ is meaningless because this entire thing is self-organizing. It’s completely different from a top-down approach that keeps everyone’s funnel full and coming back for more.

witch hat hacker πŸŽƒ types ver

@codl no i think when people say this they mean it genuinely

like on here i know if i get 20 florps that's like 20 real people that actually organically saw my posts and to click the florp button because they presumably liked it
it's not like 20 bots or 20 users mindlessly scrolling through Algorithmic Content

Samsamros

@codl totally! I just removed all boost and fav counts with uBlock Origin. I felt they were being blasted without my consent.

I do prefer conversations so much more! especially regarding my work.

Boosts and favs are tools that help broadcast and save posts you like, so that other people get the chance to interact with you.

Anyway that's my opinion, and I know some users like the metrics and counts! don't blame anyone. I think we should be able to choose our experience, and I prefer conversations.

@codl totally! I just removed all boost and fav counts with uBlock Origin. I felt they were being blasted without my consent.

I do prefer conversations so much more! especially regarding my work.

Boosts and favs are tools that help broadcast and save posts you like, so that other people get the chance to interact with you.

:babasachi: Sachi

@codl@chitter.xyz this is so nicely put, well said
​:hr_longline2:​
WARNING: this user will kiss you (it will unless u dont want to)

Joe Cooper πŸ’Ύ

@codl the worst thing about Twitter is when something does big numbers and the replies make you realize that a significant portion of the people liking/retweeting don't understand that it's a joke or are laughing for the wrong reasons, or non-joke science-oriented posts being dunked on by the smug and dumb. Somehow that's worse than obscurity. I'd rather get a reply or RT from one of my known-smart or known-funny mutuals than a few thousand randos. Smart:dumb ratio is much better here, so far.

Stampeding Longhorn :budgie:

@codl It's not a numbers or influencers game. It's about the interaction.

DELETED

@codl i get 1 star and im browsing wedding dresses

UkeBLCatboy

@codl Fair, but also, I know regularly see toots getting hundreds or retoots and thousands of likes or more so doesn't seem to be true anymore anyway XDDDD

Runvember 2022 πŸ³οΈβ€βš§οΈ

@codl it's strange, it's not unusual to be proud of yourself acting in front of like, twenty people at a local theater. or a thousand at a sports event, ten thousand at a is a big deal at a concert.

people on the internet act like 1M is the minimum. oh you only touched the lives of 100k people what a shame. you should give up

Alice πŸ”₯ Hot Dergy Summer

@codl fedi culture is just appreciating that folks are there in the first place, instead of focusing on the numbers.

Oscar Baechler

@codl I feel like the experience is getting better every day. There's enough regular posting user base, and still gloriously no ads or weird algorithm mind games.

Eleonora

@codl social media has desensitized us to the fact that there are real people running all these accounts and instead turned them into little numbers, etc ......

DELETED

@codl some lovely people have straight up told me "i love when you make posts like this" before. fedi culture is glorious. i love how we actually have a social media experience on here instead of everyone being scared to talk to each other like on other sites. and i have never done more numbers than i have on mastodon. love it here.

DELETED

@codl I think part of it, consciously or subconsciously, is recognized that this interaction wasn't whipped up by a-log magic, no?

DELETED

@codl
honestly considering how little interaction I got on tumblr and twitter, I'm getting MORE on mastodon anyway. its actually really nice and people seem to care more about my photography here

πŸ‘©β€πŸ¦―The Blind Fraggle

@codl My numbers here have always been much better than they ever were on Twitter! Thing I've noticed here is posts tend to circulate longer, and even once they're buried they tend to reappear more often.

Chris

@Fragglemuppet @codl Engagement is much better on social media when there are no algorithms. There are less bots and fake accounts stealing people's attention. Also the people that use social media without algorithms are people that are in general not mindless scrollers. They actually noticed their asocial media feeds being filled with crap and chose a different platform where they control their feed themselves.

Internet stranger

@codl@chitter.xyz I'd be happy with even just one person doing either of those.

Elenna, Goo Girl

@codl I actually got pretty similar interaction on Twitter as here, but with way more followers.

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