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Asahi Linya (朝日りにゃ〜)

This is scary. It's (strong) SafetyNet for websites.

Every now and then I run into another Android app I can no longer run because someone decided my phone, running an official build of my choice of OS, that isn't even rooted, is "not trustable".

Now they want to start doing that for websites.

This kills open Linux on the desktop (including Asahi Linux). It kills alternative browsers. It is a backdoor to kill ad blockers.

No. Just no. Please.

github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-

22 Jul 2023 at 1:55 | Open on vt.social
153 comments
Tᴀᴋᴀɴᴀsʜɪ Hᴏʀᴏ

@lina@vt.social I love how people keep claiming that their arbitrary websites and apps need to know exactly the software you are running "for your own good" while even some bank apps (like the ones I use) don't care about attesting client-side integrity.

22 Jul 2023 at 1:58 | Open on comfy.social
mofu mofu fumo
@lina how many time do i have to say "stop using web tech" before people understand that they need to stop using web tech
22 Jul 2023 at 1:58 | Open on federated.fun
Luna-Nelle :vfied_saph: :vfied_hrtf:
Flux
gudenau

@lina Is this victim blaming? It's claiming that users abuse websites but it's users coping with the abuse of websites...

Also on my rooted phone with Xposed modules I pass SafteyNet...

Edit: The DRM crap was bad enough....

22 Jul 2023 at 2:06 | Open on fosstodon.org
gudenau

@lina I was going to open an issue with some decent talking points about this being awful but they don't want feedback.
22 Jul 2023 at 2:12 | Open on fosstodon.org
서버메이드 깐프 perillamint

@gudenau @lina I'll substitute my answer with this GH comment. github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-

Also, SafetyNet bypass is becoming harder, due to TEE attestation.

They eventually kill the legacy safetynet attestaion, when they 99% sure user no longer using legacy devices anymore.

22 Jul 2023 at 3:27 | Open on social.silicon.moe
서버메이드 깐프 perillamint

@gudenau @lina Users are being tracked using Widevine EME, although it is not designed for. I also smell same thing from this proposal.

IT WILL BE ABUSED.

22 Jul 2023 at 3:34 | Open on social.silicon.moe
Natasha Nox 🇺🇦🇵🇸

@perillamint @gudenau @lina I'll never understand these cognitive backwards drivers who believe people saying "we won't abuse this system, promise!". How naive can someone be.

22 Jul 2023 at 3:55 | Open on chaos.social
gudenau

@Natanox @perillamint @lina To be fair Google has a track record of abusing systems.

22 Jul 2023 at 3:55 | Open on fosstodon.org
Natasha Nox 🇺🇦🇵🇸

@gudenau @perillamint @lina OF COURSE they have. They're a public company, to please their large shareholders they'd sell their customers' right kidney if they could. They literally break the laws on a whole continent (Europe) because it makes more money than it costs for now.

22 Jul 2023 at 4:07 | Open on chaos.social
⚠️ Crash (Fae/She)

@Natanox @perillamint @gudenau @lina If they're not willing to trust users with access their public data, then users definitely shouldn't trust them with access to their private data.

22 Jul 2023 at 8:11 | Open on kolektiva.social
m
@Natanox @perillamint @gudenau @lina there's a certain kind of legalistic sheep-for-brains that will automatically, sincerely assume that something not being permitted means it is actually impossible

it's the kind of person who, if trapped in a collapsed fully stock supermarket in a natural disaster with a crowbar and can opener and water filtration system, will fail to find anyone to take payment and starve to death
@Natanox @perillamint @gudenau @lina there's a certain kind of legalistic sheep-for-brains that will automatically, sincerely assume that something not being permitted means it is actually impossible

22 Jul 2023 at 22:20 | Open on mycrowd.ca
Miga

@lina This is a pretty serious issue, yeah... The web needs to be open, and this effectively would close it off.

22 Jul 2023 at 2:08 | Open on social.vivaldi.net
竹下憲二 【記録係】
@lina @freeplay It's almost like that's what they're trying to do. :blobfoxangry:
22 Jul 2023 at 2:09 | Open on bbs.kawa-kun.com
Nicolás Alvarez

@lina Attestation and DRM is one of the biggest roadblocks to implementing Apple server protocols (eg. iCloud) in free software clients. Some have DRM-grade obfuscated code (literally the same code obfuscation as FairPlay!), but there are already some services using strong cryptographic attestation instead, and those feel frustratingly "game over" to me.

...now Google wants that kind of crap on the *web*?!

22 Jul 2023 at 2:15 | Open on social.treehouse.systems
Neel Chauhan

@nicolas17 There should be a law that forces online services to allow third-party clients, a la what Twitter and Reddit used to do until they both fucked up.

EU, keep notice of this.

23 Jul 2023 at 3:17 | Open on mastodon.neelc.org
Saagar Jha
@nicolas17 @lina Now imagine if Apple made it silicon-backed
23 Jul 2023 at 5:27 | Open on federated.saagarjha.com
riley is gay :verified_gay:

@lina i’ve heard that at least there are voices within google who are against this (probably recognising it would get the FTC on their ass for monopolistic behaviour)

22 Jul 2023 at 2:18 | Open on akkoma.riley-tech.net
M8_d
jan Susu
@lina @usernameswift
you know what would really improve the internet? if a small group (their words) would be able to decide if your stack was trustable. Cartels improve everything
22 Jul 2023 at 2:25 | Open on snowdin.town
Herr Irrtum!
DELETED

@lina Google is not anticompetitive I swear we’re really good company I swear it please keep giving us money for the information we collect from innocent civilians.

22 Jul 2023 at 2:36 | Open on girlcock.club
Lawler Hix :verified:

@SofieLovesYou @lina "Google, why is it that when you rebranded to Alphabet Inc, you chose to sunset your longstanding motto, 'Don't be evil?'"

"Well you see John Q public, go fuck yourself."

22 Jul 2023 at 3:02 | Open on vt.social
DELETED

@lawlznet @lina I think they rebranded to Alphabet to make people think they make children’s toys or something.

or to sound like a business that Dr. Evil made to cover up his dastardly plot.

Like literally it’s so funny, it’s like naming your business “Integers” and expecting people not to think you ran out of ideas

22 Jul 2023 at 3:15 | Open on girlcock.club
DELETED

@lina Is there anyway to voice my disapproval of this? In any way that would actually have meaningful impact?

22 Jul 2023 at 2:37 | Open on girlcock.club
Ian

@lina Wow, their Github issue tracker is full of people who are not happy. Wonder what they thought would happen? 🤔​

22 Jul 2023 at 2:39 | Open on social.restless.systems
Anders Moumoulidis

@lina back door my ass, they state as much in slightly less clear terms. They know.

22 Jul 2023 at 2:42 | Open on ioc.exchange
Joby (chaotic good)

@lina "This trust is the backbone of the open internet"

IS IT THOUGH?

22 Jul 2023 at 2:43 | Open on hachyderm.io
Joby (chaotic good)

@lina Most recent blog post by the author of that repo: "I just spent £700 to have my own app on my iPhone"

Complaining about how expensive it is to make an app for his own phone, because of how closed the iOS ecosystem is.

I may die of irony overload.

benwiser.com/blog/I-just-spent

22 Jul 2023 at 2:51 | Open on hachyderm.io
Lawler Hix :verified:

@lina inb4 second internet forms in response and the 'deep web' expands to include completely normal websites that otherwise don't want to use a tyrannical anti-ad blocker standard.

22 Jul 2023 at 2:57 | Open on vt.social
LisPi

@lawlznet @lina That's kinda what I've been wanting and declaring the #clearnet dead for (also there's no sufficient trust for running arbitrary code from strangers on there, so sites don't expect to be able to either unlike the clearnet).

Caveat that "darknet" is more the appropriate term.

"Deep web" is a lot more more general.

22 Jul 2023 at 3:23 | Open on mastodon.top
wilco

@lawlznet @lina "Walkaway" by Cory Doctorow. walkaway-net vs default net. I, too, think this is the way it goes.

22 Jul 2023 at 3:58 | Open on social.lol
ᗪ丨丂卂乃ㄥ乇ᗪ :shotaland_flag:

@lawlznet @lina I was thinking something similar to this. I had a few ideas as to how this could work, actually.

Here are a few of my theories.

The internet kinda splits up, alternative web browsers are made to disable this feature, and only websites with this stupid tech turned off are accessible. This would be small self-hosted sites, sites that care about privacy, and I’d assume most E-commerce platforms or anything that has a paid for product which is how it monetizes itself.

This leads into my other theory as to why I feel this will not be implemented at scale. Let’s assume for a minute you own a huge e-commerce platform, whether this be an actual storefront Amazon or a subscription service such as Netflix. I sit here, and I think about the general population, especially older people. These individuals would rather not upgrade their hardware and barely know how to use the computer for browsing, shopping, and email checking. These are people who use Netflix, Amazon and similar. Now, let’s say we just flipped this switch. This isn’t a “switch to chrome because we don’t like Firefox users, lol. :P” message, this is a “go out and buy this specific type of hardware to access this website that you spend good money on.” That’s not going to go by well, especially for some individuals who don’t know what hardware to buy, can’t afford it, or barely want to use the internet as is. I genuinely do not see companies, especially ones who make money by actual purchases/subscriptions, wanting to actively exclude this section of their audience. An audience who frequently has a just works mentality. An audience where, if something doesn’t work with their computers or phones, just drops it and goes and does something different for the day in hopes it will work tomorrow.

I think this would actually be who these companies would be negatively effecting the most. Tech-savvy privacy-minded people are likely to just go without these websites or find smart ways around it via compartmentalization or other methods if they, absolutely must use them. But would probably be fine with the smaller sites which did not have this sort of hardware authentication enabled. I honestly don’t see this as a huge issue for those who are tech literate. It’s those who are most likely to be using FAGMAN services, those most likely to prefer the “convenience” and those most likely to go “well my friends use it” or “it just works” who will be negatively impacted.

That’s my thoughts on this, what I think would happen if it did get implemented on a mass scale and why I do not think it will, or if it does don’t think it will last.

@lawlznet @lina I was thinking something similar to this. I had a few ideas as to how this could work, actually.

Here are a few of my theories.

The internet kinda splits up, alternative web browsers are made to disable this feature, and only websites with this stupid tech turned off are accessible. This would be small self-hosted sites, sites that care about privacy, and I’d assume most E-commerce platforms or anything that has a paid for product which is how it monetizes itself.

22 Jul 2023 at 6:43 | Open on shota.house
Softwarewolf
Lawler Hix :verified:
Softwarewolf

@lawlznet @lina gemini.circumlunar.space/ Basically a network of clients and servers inspired by the Gopher protocol and very simplified HTTP. It's kinda neat, if niche and nerdy. :3

22 Jul 2023 at 15:52 | Open on chitter.xyz
Art Rosnovsky

@lina that’s a solid “hell no” right there

22 Jul 2023 at 3:11 | Open on lounge.town
Kote Isaev

@lina Sounds like response will be some "fediweb" and apps and browsers for it, where websites intentionally do not use that web-drm, WEI, and "Privacy Sandbox" which is seems to be part of WEI.

22 Jul 2023 at 3:16 | Open on mastodon.online
oceaniceternity

@lina they basically want you to have to run an anticheat to... Access a website? For more security? Why?

Why do they even need this information about my device? Isn't it good enough to just get a https request?

22 Jul 2023 at 3:29 | Open on sakurajima.moe
Xolotl (ENVtuber)
Annie

@lina@vt.social You can now only contribute to the issue tracker if you've contributed to the repo before lol.

22 Jul 2023 at 3:36 | Open on easymode.im
27329ed9-2211-a1ba-9371-e2641bf0dcb6
@lina >An owner of this repository has limited the ability to open an issue to users that have contributed to this repository in the past.
22 Jul 2023 at 3:49 | Open on suya.place
welkin ga 📌 💧⚖️

@lina DRM for websites is an absolute nightmare.

22 Jul 2023 at 3:56 | Open on mastodon.social
Bob Brown 🕹️

@lina "Detect non-human traffic in advertising to improve user experience and access to web content" - there's the motivation, Google are their advertisers are losing HUGE amounts of money due to this, see malicious.life/episode/episode and malicious.life/episode/episode

22 Jul 2023 at 3:58 | Open on mastodon.nz
Josh

@gurubob Agreed, although I'd say they're not losing the money, just not making as much money. It's not like they're entitled to unlimited profit at the expense of users freedom.

22 Jul 2023 at 7:49 | Open on mastodon.social
Bob Brown 🕹️

@krnlg yeah of course, my bad framing …. they’re not accelerating their profits as quickly as they could be. That’s a better way to frame it.

22 Jul 2023 at 12:28 | Open on mastodon.nz
Twitter Refugee Liason :marseybluecheck:
@lina just don't use websites that use it

Do you have to use apps that require SafetyNet? No, you can buy McDonalds with a debit or credit card or cash.
22 Jul 2023 at 4:02 | Open on marsey.moe
sounddrill :verified_dragon:​

@lina strong checks? Stronger spoofing.

Safetynet is long obsolete, the new thing is called play integrity.

Displax on github has tried to solve it(strong integrity) already for many phones!

I assume someone will come up and tackle this browser thing.

22 Jul 2023 at 4:03 | Open on infosec.exchange
Trash Panda

@lina@vt.social
All because they were ticked off by ad blockers, if they never allowed intrusive ads in the first place people wouldn't have made them.

22 Jul 2023 at 4:12 | Open on den.raccoon.quest
mybarkingdogs

@lina Also, along with the many other reasons this is bad, it will be a great time for the malware sites, spammers, and other general bad stuff.

Because it gives them an excuse, a reason to tell people to do unsafe/dangerous stuff or ignore warnings or whatever.

If Google goes forward with this, even *before* stuff starts breaking en masse as a result, they will have induced alarm fatigue, encouraged people to ignore/get around *legitimate* warnings and safety guards because they're producing bullshit notices and prohibitions and warnings.

@lina Also, along with the many other reasons this is bad, it will be a great time for the malware sites, spammers, and other general bad stuff.

Because it gives them an excuse, a reason to tell people to do unsafe/dangerous stuff or ignore warnings or whatever.

If Google goes forward with this, even *before* stuff starts breaking en masse as a result, they will have induced alarm fatigue, encouraged people to ignore/get around *legitimate* warnings and safety guards because they're producing bullshit...

22 Jul 2023 at 5:23 | Open on tech.lgbt
安坂星海 Azaka Sekai

@lina more Google research that no one asked for great

22 Jul 2023 at 5:48 | Open on vt.social
Stephanie 🎀
collappsar
austin, not your sweet baboo

@lina sometimes, i think: techbros should have been left in the supply closet

22 Jul 2023 at 6:05 | Open on tech.lgbt
Chris Lilley

@lina "and the risk of websites using this functionality to exclude specific attesters or non-attestable browsers. "
A risk the proposers seem willing to take.

22 Jul 2023 at 6:08 | Open on mastodon.social
𝘋𝘪𝘳𝘬

@lina On the other hand: Only questionable Sites will use this.

22 Jul 2023 at 6:08 | Open on gts.0x7be.net
Bobby

@lina yeah that's true It will kill a whole bunch of stuff, but it's not like they will listen to us. They're continuing to push blocking ad blockers on YouTube. Look at Twitter and reddit they're not even budging on the community either. I hate how we're not listened to

22 Jul 2023 at 6:36 | Open on social.bobby99as.me
ramshackle
詞理屋 :apartyblobcat:
alarig

@lina Authors: google, google, google, google. All is said.

22 Jul 2023 at 7:25 | Open on hostux.social
🇳𝗮ꜟ𝖼𝘩
DELETED
Neuvillette

@lina soon there will be safetynet fix for web browsers. Or magisk alpha/delta for Chrome and all chromium-based browsers. Time to switch to Firefox.

22 Jul 2023 at 7:36 | Open on mstdn.social
ultra0
Montgomery Gator

@lina Begging isn't going to stop anything, they've gone full "mind virus" ideology about this.

We need to break Chromium for as many web services as possible. Make it hurt to be on anything Chromium.

And where the heck is the anti-trust lawsuit? This is exactly the same as Microsoft and the Javascript stuff that caused the 1997 anti-trust lawsuit.

22 Jul 2023 at 7:40 | Open on fouroclockfarms.club
Vulcwen | Tessa

@lina My initial reaction is that this is another "you will own nothing" trick. But after a bit of reading.. yes it's a "you will own nothing" trick. Requiring a third party to judge if you're trustworthy is subject to all kinds of risks (for the regular user).

22 Jul 2023 at 7:42 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Fabrizio Pelosi 🐧

@lina it's also incompatible with their own Goal 4: "Continue to allow web browsers to browse the Web without attestation."...
Major websites (and banking sites) will SURELY start to use it to block "unsafe" web browsers...
Also, a lot of Antitrust issues are present (and this path will SURELY be tried!).
Hopefully @mozilla is by our side here... 🤞

22 Jul 2023 at 7:47 | Open on mastodon.social
Lea (headpat dispenser)

@lina@vt.social of course it's google again. let's hope this gets shot down the same way FLOC did

22 Jul 2023 at 7:56 | Open on lea.pet
Super Piéton (🎲🥐) ⏚

@lina

The issue tracker shows that nobody is fooled by the aim of this shit...

22 Jul 2023 at 8:30 | Open on framapiaf.org
ĸurth

@Super_Pieton @lina according to this guy we should all Not Assume A Hidden Agenda. 🙄
blog.yoav.ws/posts/web_platfor keep calm, put your concerns in the grievance box, nothing to see here, business as usual

22 Jul 2023 at 9:17 | Open on social.tchncs.de
Super Piéton (🎲🥐) ⏚

@kurth @lina

"put your concerns in the grievance box"

Yeah, count on me... 😏

22 Jul 2023 at 14:51 | Open on framapiaf.org
awooo :blobfoxcheck: 🏴‍☠️ :bisexual_flag: 🐾 ⎇

@lina The ironic thing is that if you root your phone, you can actually downgrade to and bypass the "basic" SafetyNet attestation. But good luck with the new Play Integrity...

Sadly from the response the authors of this have given, I'm pretty sure they're being malicious and doing damage control at this point, because they keep repeating that this is not meant to block adblock or restrict browsers as if everyone had said that it was going to that directly. No, it's the websites that are going to use this to exclude ad-blocking browsers and any mutable OS out there. It's a clever trick on their part to not claim responsibility, TC is really insidious.

@lina The ironic thing is that if you root your phone, you can actually downgrade to and bypass the "basic" SafetyNet attestation. But good luck with the new Play Integrity...

Sadly from the response the authors of this have given, I'm pretty sure they're being malicious and doing damage control at this point, because they keep repeating that this is not meant to block adblock or restrict browsers as if everyone had said that it was going to that directly. No, it's the websites that are going to...

22 Jul 2023 at 8:37 | Open on pawb.fun
Kevin Chadwick

@lina

Oh dear. For websites now!

This is why I will not run Google pay/wallet. I updated my old phone to lineageos due to Nokias late and then ended security patches. A totally rootable phone beforehand yet it could run google wallet and LineageOS was blocked due to an amber bootloader alert. Netflix was blocked too!

22 Jul 2023 at 8:47 | Open on ioc.exchange
Fish Id Wardrobe

@lina On the plus side: if this is implemented and millions of users find they can't access certain web sites, what will happen? I imagine a lot of them will switch to Firefox.

22 Jul 2023 at 8:51 | Open on mastodon.me.uk
ĸurth

@fishidwardrobe @lina FFs share is extremely low. i think google waited for some kind of share-threshold to go public with this stuff.

22 Jul 2023 at 9:18 | Open on social.tchncs.de
Fish Id Wardrobe

@kurth @lina True, but it's not as if FF has dropped out of the public consciousness. Folks will switch right back.

22 Jul 2023 at 14:27 | Open on mastodon.me.uk
ĸurth

@fishidwardrobe @lina hmmm, i'm not sure about that, though i'd be happy to. you know, that critical mass that would be needed to not eventually force that googleshit on anybody anyway. if enough sites are requiring that 'attested environment', and only 2% of the FF-share is complaining, it will be there regardless of whether people *could* switch to FF. they just dont. it seems well timed and calculated

22 Jul 2023 at 14:33 | Open on social.tchncs.de
Haijo
Problem is, Google has a monopoly. Most people are using Chrome on Windows and won't even notice this unless they use an adblocker (or a tracker blocker, or anything alike).
The people that use an adblocker just wouldn't be able to access the websites that are blocking adblockers, installing Firefox won't help them unless Firefox also implements the DRM.
Google is trying to pull a Microsoft here (embrace, extend, extinguish)

CC: @lina@vt.social
Problem is, Google has a monopoly. Most people are using Chrome on Windows and won't even notice this unless they use an adblocker (or a tracker blocker, or anything alike).
The people that use an adblocker just wouldn't be able to access the websites that are blocking adblockers, installing Firefox won't help them unless Firefox also implements the DRM.
22 Jul 2023 at 9:26 | Open on snac.haijo.eu
Christian Brunsch

@lina it’s time for Rache Bartmoss to finally nuke the net.

22 Jul 2023 at 9:14 | Open on troet.cafe
Гепатит Бэ

@lina I hate the modern web so much

22 Jul 2023 at 9:15 | Open on mas.to
Jaka Hudoklin
ScaredyCat
@lina Check out the issues though 🤣
22 Jul 2023 at 9:34 | Open on toot.net-pbx.com
Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE

@lina "Users often depend on websites trusting the client environment they run in."

What a bizarre idea. Surely everybody knows that you have to code the back end on the assumption that the client can't be trusted, and might even have been replaced by something malicious?

22 Jul 2023 at 9:35 | Open on c.im
Dushman

@lina@vt.social

> Now they want to start doing that for websites.

I say we shouldn't give a shit as this is not that significant. There's nothing to really fret over. Every non garbage browser will throw this feature in the garbage. If you use Chrome then you get what you signed up for. ¯\_ (ツ) _/¯

22 Jul 2023 at 9:37 | Open on den.raccoon.quest
fabiosantoscode

@lina I wonder if this can be blocked on our websites. With a message about the browser not being trusted with the future of the web, and a few links to install another one.

If enough websites implement, the tech can't move forward.

22 Jul 2023 at 9:39 | Open on mastodon.social
Franz Graf

@lina they should realy alaborate more into the "how can this be misused" part ... oh my.
Thanks for posting

22 Jul 2023 at 9:39 | Open on mastodon.social
Greg Dance

@lina

Please could I add to your concerns & take this convo on a little speculative trip?

I've been a keen watcher of the big bad machinery encroaching the free web space for several years.
Why I ask?

Its very easy to assume lust for ultimate control & money by them, but if we look above their individual frailties we might see why they want to control the messaging on web their way.

So I think it may be about this.

columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/20

They are terrified of taking the blame for this!

@lina

Please could I add to your concerns & take this convo on a little speculative trip?

I've been a keen watcher of the big bad machinery encroaching the free web space for several years.
Why I ask?

Its very easy to assume lust for ultimate control & money by them, but if we look above their individual frailties we might see why they want to control the messaging on web their way.

22 Jul 2023 at 9:45 | Open on mastodon.green
シナモロール :kirby:

@lina banking and financial apps don't care but god forbid I top up my own electric/gas!

22 Jul 2023 at 9:58 | Open on mastodon.social
Logyi a téli hidegben

@lina @stevelord google has been pushing these sorts of things via the WHATWG and what not as well; it’s truly awful. I was just reading this via email this morning; the juxtaposition of these two paragraphs is wild:
22 Jul 2023 at 10:03 | Open on mastodon.social
Qbitzerre

@lina the ongoing war against general-purpose computing.

22 Jul 2023 at 10:22 | Open on unbound.social
freediverx
Malaĉa maman chat 🌟

@lina also, is this me or everything about this proposal is (suspiciously) super vague and unclear. what is an attester in practice? a non-free binary like for DRMs?

22 Jul 2023 at 10:47 | Open on eldritch.cafe
BigTheDave

@lina

Let's reframe that opening bullet list:

- Companies make expensive products with a business model that's being eroded as Users realise their data has real-world value.

- Companies want to know that the clients using their site have personal data worth selling

- Companies want to force trust to the client side rather than spend money writing secure code.

- This bullet point is nonsense. Malicious apps mimic the interface to steal passwords, then log in with the original software

22 Jul 2023 at 10:50 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Francis ☑️

@lina open web vs closed web. Not a step forward for users.

22 Jul 2023 at 11:01 | Open on mastodon.social
Tech10

@lina can't wait for internet 2: the hopefully better one!
Ok, but seriously, i recently switched to Linux Mint, because Windows was slow, i will NOT switch back to using Chrome and Windows just because some crackheads decided it would be funny to lockdown websites. I prefer looking at a basic html using Netscape than put up with this nonsense.

22 Jul 2023 at 11:02 | Open on mastodon.social
Dawid Rejowski

@tech10 @lina

Maybe GNUNet + some new user-owned easy to modify browser?
I hope for this direction.

22 Jul 2023 at 14:43 | Open on 101010.pl
Tech10

@didek @lina I have never heard of GnuNet before, i looked it up, i think i'll try it. Thanks to have brought it up!

22 Jul 2023 at 15:12 | Open on mastodon.social
Dawid Rejowski

@tech10 @lina

You can try, but it's so much work in progress that there is no sense in installing now unless wanting to develop 🫣.
Still want to show it as a concept that we can do things differently.

22 Jul 2023 at 15:13 | Open on 101010.pl
SofaKingHigh

@lina anyone website dumb enough to enable better be ready for users to leave, I don’t care if it’s YouTube, or some other site I like, I’m not giving up more privacy and control of my own personal computer just because some CEO’s got a hair up their ass over Adblock

22 Jul 2023 at 11:11 | Open on ioc.exchange
Christian Euler :mastozany:

@lina That's pretty much broken by design.

They say: We need to assure that client devices are trustworthy enough to run our code.

I say: No way, stupid. Always assume that your bloated code runs in an untrusted environment and design it accordingly. And get your hands off my client browser. My device - my rules.

22 Jul 2023 at 11:40 | Open on toot.execbase.net
ATurnOfTheNut

@lina I definitely think killing those things is the main point. The days of "Don't be evil" being a selling point are long past (and outgrown)...

22 Jul 2023 at 12:05 | Open on mas.to
simonbp

@lina Besides the myriad technical issues, the developer of the monopoly web browser seeking to develop technology that would shut out any alternatives, specifically to benefit their ad department, should smell to antitrust authorities what frying bacon smells like to famished dog.

22 Jul 2023 at 12:55 | Open on social.linux.pizza
monoxane

@lina This goes even further, it kills wget, it kills curl, it kills aria2, it kills the Internet Archives scripts, it kills Archive Teams entire ability to save sites in hours, and most importantly of all it practically kills the end users ownership of their device.

22 Jul 2023 at 13:02 | Open on mastodon.vx0.dev
running_zebra
Chris Colvin :blobcat:

@lina "This trust is the backbone of the open internet..."

Yeah... Ok 😒

22 Jul 2023 at 13:25 | Open on mastodon.social
nw8man 🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴‍☠️✝️

@lina everyone root your phone's, delete Google and all be happy. Google = Evil.

22 Jul 2023 at 13:31 | Open on mastodon.social
ima

@lina their way of describing it is awful, why do they keep saying the "web page" is doing things, and that the "web page" sends stuff to the web server??
The web server is hosting the web page. Just say it's the client that's doing it, what are they trying to obscure, it becomes confusing to read.

22 Jul 2023 at 13:36 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
kit

@lina I simply won't use websites that block me on this, and that's fine. But I will use other websites that don’t.

22 Jul 2023 at 13:37 | Open on nutmeg.social
kit

@lina oh a real note write to ur congressman and tell them it’s time to break up big tech with antitrust, google wouldn’t pull this shit if it didn’t own chrome

22 Jul 2023 at 13:56 | Open on nutmeg.social
Benjamin

@lina Adblocers. Privacy. Competition. Literally anything that Google doesn't like. And don't believe for a SECOND that all the other ad- and spy-companies like Facebook and whatnot won't follow. The free and open Internet dies here.

22 Jul 2023 at 13:47 | Open on mstdn.games
Benjamin

@lina The more I think about this, the more of a nightmare this is.
Need to use Chrome on 80% of all websites? People will use it on 100%.
Need to look something up even on a non-Google page? Chrome knows. Google knows.

Governments want to know who looked something up they don't like? "Just Google it" will get a whole different meaning.

22 Jul 2023 at 13:57 | Open on mstdn.games
Benjamin

@lina I hear a few states in the US are pretty big on this right now.

22 Jul 2023 at 14:01 | Open on mstdn.games
Stefan

@lina It's probably about making sure that everyone submits to the "central scrutinizer".

22 Jul 2023 at 13:47 | Open on mastodon.online
Gosun
Jake in the desert

@lina exactly - this is dangerous stuff for people who want to build or make any of their own stuff. Their goal is and always has been to homogenize the whole web

22 Jul 2023 at 14:46 | Open on c.im
Kobold

@lina And we are already late, it is merged into Chromium already.

bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/i

It's about time to kick all Chromium based browsers off our devices!

22 Jul 2023 at 14:52 | Open on social.troll.academy
Piousunyn

@lina

I miss Linux, suspect the same people smothering android are doing the hardest to throttle or end linux. Google?

22 Jul 2023 at 14:57 | Open on universeodon.com
epicEaston197

@lina
hold on does this mean if I use a browser like Firefox a website can decline my access to the site because I use Firefox?

22 Jul 2023 at 15:19 | Open on cyberfurz.social
korreckj328

@lina Best web browser ever linux.die.net/man/1/lynx

😭

Seriously though I feel like moving back to lynx and irc. Web2.0 is a failure lets go back to 1.0

22 Jul 2023 at 15:24 | Open on fosstodon.org
DELETED

@lina reject corposlop.
reject fedware.

22 Jul 2023 at 15:35 | Open on linuxrocks.online
Codrus :archlinux: 🇺🇲
Idcrafter

@lina i like that this hasn't happened to me on my pixel 6 pro and CalyxOS but it only isn't detected because it uses microG and a re-locked bootloader which passes safetynet if you enable it

22 Jul 2023 at 15:55 | Open on fosstodon.org
quasigod

@lina@vt.social this has to be an antitrust case waiting to happen right? I don't see how this could possibly be implemented without many countries in Europe fighting it. The US on the otherhand I'm sure will just let it happen.

22 Jul 2023 at 16:12 | Open on infosec.town
Rafael - Yakultjapa

@lina sorry, I am curious about this, but my knowledge of website is very little.

I read the proposal and what understand was this is a web-api where we will access all your backbones of softwares and hardware to prove you are a real person and not a human with a horse mask for protect whatever scam?

In a common world would be like, let's an authorize person to enter your house freely to guarantee no dangerous people enter, even if you don't have any way to distinguish a real or a fake authorized person and could potentially happen a fake person enter?

I want to understand because it's kinda nothing for average folks if they doesn't understand and usually they are the focus of this bull poop.

@lina sorry, I am curious about this, but my knowledge of website is very little.

I read the proposal and what understand was this is a web-api where we will access all your backbones of softwares and hardware to prove you are a real person and not a human with a horse mask for protect whatever scam?

22 Jul 2023 at 16:27 | Open on peoplemaking.games
Den Antares

@lina I see the GitHub repo already got flooded with complaints. Where else should I go to oppose this? Is there some way to get involved with the W3C or something?

22 Jul 2023 at 16:29 | Open on mastodon.social
0nepeop1e

@lina wait what? i understand why they trying to do this, but it really sounds bad

22 Jul 2023 at 16:31 | Open on social.shikatomajo.live
Pete

@lina Another problem is demonizing VPNs. I had to call my bank because "my IP address changed." LOL. At least with browsers you can change the user agent, sometimes. I wish browsers would include a mode for connecting to picky financial institutions. For certain services I have to turn off the VPN or install Firefox.

22 Jul 2023 at 18:08 | Open on noagendasocial.com
Drew Naylor

@lina Wonder how long it'll take the EFF and FSF to get on this.

22 Jul 2023 at 18:13 | Open on mastodon.online
Crazy Pony

@lina just an notice, but i have already noticed for years how stuff moved away from beeing a "Website" into calling it an "online App", and of course also companies really nagging you to download the real App instead of using the web

22 Jul 2023 at 18:19 | Open on rubber.social
Kevin Karhan :verified:

@lina that is the very intention, cuz #AllGafamsAreEvil and they won't stop unless they get forcibly disbanded through #ShermanAntitrustAct or similar #Antitrust laws OR they've consumed everything there is!

#GAFAMs are like the #Flood - they can only be stopped by starving them!
youtube.com/watch?v=uzhJWMv_BN

22 Jul 2023 at 18:28 | Open on mstdn.social
Raptor :gamedev:

@lina This proposal is literally death to the open internet as we know it, effectively you would no longer be allowed to have an online presence unless google decides it's ok. Make a product that competes with google? oops, sorry, that's "unsafe", can't show that to end users!

Lets not forget that microsoft tried this in the 90s, it's what they LOST an antitrust suit over, banks/etc using activex to require websites authenticate that users are on windows using IE for "safety" was awful.

22 Jul 2023 at 18:38 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
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