@Impossible_PhD doesn't surprise me at all, the emotional / psychological effects were so rapid for me. Obviously facial hair etc took longer but I felt different almost immediately.
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@Impossible_PhD doesn't surprise me at all, the emotional / psychological effects were so rapid for me. Obviously facial hair etc took longer but I felt different almost immediately. 24 comments
@Impossible_PhD @KevinLikesMaps SO many eggs I wish could be helped... @theogrin @KevinLikesMaps Let's do math here with NYC, population 8.4m. 1.6% are trans, and 20% of that are trans men (20% are trans women, 60% are nonbinary). That's 26,880 trans men in NYC. Of those, you need *only* those who are having SI (~40%), so 10,752. Of that, you need the folks who want HRT (~33%), for 3,548. Of THOSE, you need the guys who have not yet begun HRT, but have decided to get it. Then, only those who are willing to do an RCT. That is a SMALL population, isn't it? @Impossible_PhD @KevinLikesMaps It's amazing they found as many as they did. I certainly don't scour the corkboard at the local market on a regular basis. @theogrin @KevinLikesMaps Yeah, for a big sample you'd need a nationwide study for sure. @Impossible_PhD @KevinLikesMaps We are implicitly distrustful. We have to be. Our lives demand it. We've been burned time and again. In a city of 2m people, 70 is the most we can honestly hope for. How fucked is that? @Impossible_PhD @KevinLikesMaps @theogrin @KevinLikesMaps yeeeeeep. Percentages of percentages of percentages of percentages do that *really* quickly. @Impossible_PhD @KevinLikesMaps Intellectually, I know this full well. One of the problems with being human, though, is that we have zero scope of scale. Tiny little bacterium can't hurt us, suddenly we're all dead of Black Death. Lions, how terrible! Mosquitoes, meh. And so on. Smol things multiply... and get ignored. A 1% chance also becomes a certainty in time, and people don't grok how often they roll the dice. @Impossible_PhD Hello! I've seen that 60/20/20 breakdown in numbers of trans people before -- I'm curious, where are those numbers coming from in this case? I would like to add them to my notes :D thank you @faithisleaping @KevinLikesMaps Oh yeah. I've done my own work with randomized samples, so definitely the case--it's just that the difference in strength between a 67 participant study and a 670 participant study is much more than an order of magnitude, in terms of confidence. @Impossible_PhD @KevinLikesMaps that's already 30 people who needed T and were given a placebo, sure they agreed to that, but I do not think getting a better sigma is worth putting more people into that shitty situation @book @KevinLikesMaps I'm not saying we should--just that that's the only possible axis for criticism. @Impossible_PhD @KevinLikesMaps I'm also a little surprised it would pass an IRB. Taking a person who reports SI and giving him placebos rather than T seems ethically ick. @JessTheUnstill @Impossible_PhD I must be missing something or bad at math, but I don't think all of the participants had SI. @JessTheUnstill @Impossible_PhD it'd be good to have a link to the actual study, but I don't have the exec function to hunt it down right now (I'm not asking you to do the work, just explaining) @KevinLikesMaps @Impossible_PhD came here to say the same thing. Within two days the backdrop of negative static in my brain of like passive suicidality was just…gone. Completely gone. @KevinLikesMaps @Impossible_PhD Not surprising but need to see the full report. The numbers here don't add up. Sample size 64 but 11 people is 52% of the T group (implying 21 in the group) and 1 person is 5% of the control group (implying 20 people in that group). What happened to the other 23? There's also no placebo control, which is pretty critical for the credibility of subjective outcomes. Looks like a weak study design, unfortunately. @jocanib @KevinLikesMaps I mean, that's just not accurate. At least half of the total cohort was the plan ebo control. That's how you do an RCT; you can't call it an RCT without a 50% placebo control. That's literally that the RC means. @Impossible_PhD @KevinLikesMaps Half the total cohort is 32 but they report only 20 on control and 21 on T. What happened to the other 23? @jocanib @KevinLikesMaps we'll find out when the full study gets published. This is a report from a conference presentation |
@KevinLikesMaps Oh, absolutely 0% surprise here. It almost perfectly mirrors the non-RCT results we've had, which is what you'd expect to see in good science. The literal *only* weakness in the study is sample size. With a total corpus of 67, we're short of the sizes we'd need to *really* tear apart the data for potential interference and such, but recruiting corpus pf, say, 500 transmascs experiencing SI and seeking immediate HRT in a specific geographical area is a very tall order.