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Top-level
No one is asking Reddit for the moon and the stars, just to listen to small changes. Even Twitch, which made horrendous moves this month, recognized that the community is what gives their company any value at all, and responded in some capacity to make their users feel heard. 51 comments
@christianselig would you have agreed with a free api that serves advertisement posts too? I’d still very much be using apollo even if it served ad posts in between normal posts @WaterSword @christianselig certainly can have adds that don’t try and trick the user or muddy up the experience @Gediren @christianselig they announced an advertisement policy (I think technically existed before but wasn't enforced) which restricted burn-in ads in streams. @Gediren @christianselig twitch was upset streamers made a living by having sponsors pay them to display banner ads or other inserts streamers do. Twitch did back pedal a bit to save themselves from more embarrassment. Edit: fixed a word.   @thepoliticalcat @billcipher @Gediren @christianselig an egg corn is a misused phrase that still works, such as ex-patriot instead of expatriate and upmost instead of utmost. So in this case back paddling is not the original phrase but works anyway, and is a nice one because it makes more sense if they're in "hot water" @pidgeon_pete @billcipher @Gediren @christianselig Ah! Like a mondegreen for song lyrics! I've never heard that term before. Must go look it up. @thepoliticalcat @billcipher @Gediren @christianselig a little, though. If we're talking about them I personally like malaphors, but we can burn that bridge when we get to it @pidgeon_pete @billcipher @Gediren @christianselig Don't tell me - they're a cross between "malapropism" and "metaphor?" @thepoliticalcat @billcipher @Gediren @christianselig I think it's just mal as in bad smushed up with metaphor. It's deliberately mixed up metaphors like the road to hell wasn't paved in a day. Do you get the feeling we've gone off topic a little? @pidgeon_pete @billcipher @Gediren @christianselig Ah. As for going off topic, my loving spouse assures me he's hard put to keep up since I reliably bounce between topics, but in what direction, alas! Even I cannot say. Were you regretting the fall down the rabbithole? I learned a few new things. @thepoliticalcat I think I concern myself overly with other people being irritated by my ramblings. I get a little enthusiastic about the oddest of things. @pidgeon_pete Well, join me in throwing fears to the wind and erring with wild abandon! We've only got one life to live, right, might as well enjoy the fuck out of it. @billcipher @Gediren @christianselig Hey! I work hard to remain a Member in Good Standing of the Alt-Write! (We used to be Grammar Nazis, but, you know, who wants to be a Nazi, even in fun, any more?) @thepoliticalcat @Gediren @christianselig @billcipher @Gediren @christianselig Thanks for being such a thoroughly nice person yourself! It's a play on words. Here, we call Nazis "the Alt-Right," so we're still the awful people who will attack you about misspelling or misused punctuation, but we will avoid the open association with Nazis. Same but I found this on The Verge. https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/7/23753142/twitch-ad-rules-policy-removal-streaming @christianselig I’ve never seen a CEO of a community-based business so delusional on what their success is built on. We’ll continue to fight.  @monokai @christianselig does it even make sense to fight? #reddit is a platform run by a private business, and the business decided to alienate themselves with the most active part of the community. There's no way back, and the most passionate moderators will just shut the doors and leave. @bonkers @monokai @christianselig Yeah, we all had a good ride on Reddit while VCs were subsidizing it, now they’re going to monetize it (and make it a less interesting and less dynamic platform). Time to delete accounts, move on and find something new. Everything fades, Reddit included. @DenverComicGuy @monokai @christianselig well it has to be sustainable, so it has to earn money. But there are ways to do it together with the community without destroying it. @bonkers @monokai @christianselig and building a sustainable positive community will have to be done off Reddit. The major platforms have lived too long on VC money, the owners need a return and it will come at the expense of the users. FYI this convo is happening on an open source non profit platform, so not every platform needs to make a profit (but I agree, they do need some form of sustainable funding model( @DenverComicGuy @monokai @christianselig Just as we speak, home.socal is closing down for undisclosed reasons, but I suspect it's because of financial burden and tons of unpaid work. @DenverComicGuy @monokai @christianselig My point is, #reddit had a good chance to stay alive and sustainable, which means profitable, if the CEO actually cared about people.  @christianselig For once, Twitch did something moderately commendable. Spez is a POS and I wouldn’t expect anything like that from him. @christianselig Twitch knew everyone would leave and meant it. Now they are attacking their own Mods, and App developers. Let’s not forget Spez thinking you are stupid by saying you blackmailed them, and then doubling down. If he had any accountability, his ass would be fired for that. Thank you for always being honest and transparent on these issues. Long time beta user here who is deleting my account and no longer using reddit. Fuck that company and Spez for that BS. @christianselig Imagine being shown up on community communication by Twitch.tv, well-known for absolutely ramfucking creators on its site @christianselig the only way for Reddit to change anything is if this protest lasts an indefinite amount of time. If they were to backpedal would you continue Apollo at this point or are you too burnt by management to care? @christianselig I’m really impressed with how your community has rallied to you. You work clearly has made a big difference. @sanguish @christianselig I think this goes beyond Apolo. There are lots of 3rd party apps in the same situation. But the huge user base of Apolo certainly helped move a critical mass in this 'protest'  @HernanLG @sanguish @christianselig It does. I hadn’t even heard about Apollo 😖 before all this started. It’s about fucking with developers and users that riles me. Not giving a heads up to the dev to have a chance to explore options and implement a solution or budging on the price. They don’t want 3rd party apps. And then Steve’s AMA oozed arrogance and he is a liar. Unacceptable. @sanguish @christianselig Honestly, Apollo was the only reason I stayed on Reddit as long as I did. I would have left long ago, otherwise. I know I'm not alone in that. @christianselig Twitch is owned by Amazon. As YouTube is Google. I think it’s why these two platforms in particular navigate controversy quite well. They have actual grown ups at the table. @christianselig I love that Apollo doesn't have ads, but during all of you chats with Reddit, did they ever suggest that the API could stay free if third party apps served inline ads to non-Premium members? Just curious!  @christianselig It's all about the money. Why change if they think they'll make more on the current course? So poorly handled on all fronts and clearly motivated by greed. All well. Onto the Fediverse. @Gur814 @christianselig It's not even about money. If they just wanted to earn money negotiating with third party developers for a solution that serves ads and/or has a reasonable pricing would lock in a steady income from each third party app user. It's about control and locking down users to their client because they think that their value is in the user data, and not in their API. @axelshooter63 Right. Which they believe will make them more money compared to fairly monetizing 3rd party apps. Locking down and controlling user data = more money in Reddit's eyes. @christianselig Thanks for fighting the good fight. Apollo was/is my most used app and I’ll be very sad to have to retire it. I won’t be using their client. @christianselig (I’ve never understood the 2006 purchase.) It’s still operated by the founders (2005), which is amazing. Who knows what pressures corporate are exerting? EDIT: I did know about the IPO. 🤦🏼♀️ @christianselig I’m gonna say the same thing as most replies here but Reddit knows outrage is short lived and people need social media. Unless FB builds a Reddit clone. @christianselig They listened because it's well-known they have serious competition and they couldn't ensure they'd be profitable going with this long term. I imagine everything YouTube's been doing recently, even as of today may have gotten out to someone over at Amazon ahead of time, and going ahead with that would've been bad biz. @christianselig as someone deeply interested in how to balance developers vs being sustainable long term, is there a public list of demands / counter-proposals / etc? Is there a consensus? |
Gregory's Server
I guess the difference is that Twitch creators can jump ship to YouTube or the like and take a lot of money with them, while the value of Reddit users is alot more abstract.