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Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦's posts Post Back to profile
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Strypey

@tchambers
> Defederation should be a nuclear option only for virtually unmoderated servers in my book

Funny, I've been arguing this too, but I'm starting to come around to @FediThing's position. The combination of John Mastodon's decision to funnel most newbies into his mega-instance, with the persistent crypto-spam coming from it, is the final straw for me. Something's got to give.

(1/3)

@rysiek

15 May 2023 at 0:04 | Wall-to-wall | Open on mastodon.nzoss.nz
9 comments
Strypey

@tchambers
I suggest drafting an open letter and getting it signed by other server admins. Tell John Mastodon his instances will be defederated if he doesn't address the problems they're creating. My suggestions for the conditions;

a) reverse the decision to funnel all new users of the official apps into his instances

b) manually approve all new accounts on them to weed out spammers

(2/3)

@FediThing @rysiek

15 May 2023 at 0:13 | Open on mastodon.nzoss.nz
Strypey

@tchambers
c) close registrations for at last a week whenever spam or other serious abuse is (accurately) reported, so mods can redirect their attention from pre-approving new accounts to weeding out Bad Actors among existing ones.

d) maintain a mod to user ratio of no lower than X per thousand.

Thoughts?

(3/3)

@FediThing @rysiek

15 May 2023 at 0:22 | Open on mastodon.nzoss.nz
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

@strypey @tchambers @FediThing I don't find ultimatums useful. Plus he already knows what needs to be done.

15 May 2023 at 0:28 | Open on mstdn.social
Strypey

@rysiek
> I don't find ultimatums useful

It's not an ultimatum, just a statement of fact. Some admins are already Limiting m.s. Defederation, like winter, is coming if he doesn't get House Mastodon in order.

> Plus he already knows what needs to be done

Maybe. I'm no mind reader, so I don't know. At least if it's stated openly, a) he definitely does know, and b) there's evidence of due process when people complain about defederation.

Who knows, he might even listen?

@tchambers @FediThing

@rysiek
> I don't find ultimatums useful

It's not an ultimatum, just a statement of fact. Some admins are already Limiting m.s. Defederation, like winter, is coming if he doesn't get House Mastodon in order.

> Plus he already knows what needs to be done

Maybe. I'm no mind reader, so I don't know. At least if it's stated openly, a) he definitely does know, and b) there's evidence of due process when people complain about defederation.

15 May 2023 at 2:20 | Open on mastodon.nzoss.nz
Tim Chambers replied to Strypey

@strypey @rysiek @FediThing

Anyone is free to defederate anyone, but everyone can ask "to what end?"

Defederation is a fundamentally self-defeating tactic to fighting centralization. And when does it stop? The top 3 largest servers etc? Top 10?

Much better: focus on growing the middle and lower end serers than blocking the big.

15 May 2023 at 14:25 | Open on indieweb.social
FediThing replied to Tim

@tchambers @strypey @rysiek

There's a danger is that the more m.s grows the more the network effect will kick in.

I'm often having to deal with people on @feditips who think m.s is better because it's where everyone is going anyway.

There could be a feedback loop where growth causes growth.

Also, as m.s gets bigger there's more chance of it being sold to someone worse. Eugen might change, or get bored, or get an offer he cannot refuse (not mafia, but just a lot of money 😁 ).

15 May 2023 at 14:59 | Open on tech.lgbt
FediThing replied to FediThing

@tchambers @strypey @rysiek @feditips

Growing middle and low ends is what used to happen on the old onboarding, where it asked people to choose a server.

It no longer does that, and people are no longer being driven to middle and low ends.

That alone should be cause for concern.

15 May 2023 at 15:01 | Open on tech.lgbt
Tim Chambers replied to FediThing

@FediThing @strypey @rysiek @feditips

The proper use of "network effects" should be to rally the thousands of mid-range and smaller servers to grow, and to encourage users to migrate to them from M.S. not to balkanize or fragment the Fedi.

Onboarding doesn't only happen at the JoinMastodon level unless folks don't push it at the local servers.

BTW: the new onboarding now only apply to the mobile app, right, the web UI is unchanged? And don't most use other apps now (Ivory, icebubes etc)?

15 May 2023 at 15:06 | Open on indieweb.social
FediThing replied to Tim

@tchambers @strypey @rysiek

As far as I can tell, vast majority of new people sign up on the official app. That's why I am so concerned.

At least on feditips, most new people who talk to me are unaware there even are any other apps. Many aren't aware they can use website at all, they call Mastodon "the app" or "this app".

As far as I can tell, the membership flow is now this:

1. Hear about a social network
2. Look it up on their phone's app store
3. Install the official app
4. Sign up via the official app

People have been trained by years on Twitter, Facebook, Insta, Tiktok etc to think that the concepts of social network and apps and official apps are all one and the same thing.

This is why I think commercial platforms started to shut down or severely restrict APIs for third parties, to encourage this official app flow.

@tchambers @strypey @rysiek

As far as I can tell, vast majority of new people sign up on the official app. That's why I am so concerned.

At least on feditips, most new people who talk to me are unaware there even are any other apps. Many aren't aware they can use website at all, they call Mastodon "the app" or "this app".

15 May 2023 at 15:10 | Open on tech.lgbt
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