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Top-level
 @ocdtrekkie if you want to say that I am "being hostile for the sake of hostility", just go on and say it, don't hide behind "people taking alarmist positions". You are entitled to see what I say this way. I am allowed to draw analogies with a very similar network that had a very similar active accounts distribution, and then got almost killed by the flagship instance removing itself from the equation. We don't have to agree, and at this point I don't think we will. 31 comments
> If mastodon.social went away (very unlikely), pretty much the entirety of the community would be wholly unaffected. And again, I lived through an event like that, and it absolutely affected people all around. We will not agree. You flat-out refuse to accept my personal experience with a similar situation.  @rysiek @ocdtrekkie @pearlbear I'm almost certain that m.s ain't going anywhere anytime soon, and there's definitely no plans to drop activitypub (because that'd be very silly) But still, even if m.s disappeared overnight, that still leaves >85% of the fediverse intact, which certainly shouldn't be a death knell. @thisismissem I was so certain identi.ca was not going anywhere that I quit :birdsite: cold turkey about 7mo before identi.ca got pump-io'd. > But still, even if m.s disappeared overnight, that still leaves >85% of the fediverse intact How many of these 85% of accounts have important contacts on m.s? Identipocalypse also left ~90% of the network intact, and yet most people who remember this remember it as a calamity for the network. @rysiek @thisismissem @ocdtrekkie My concern is primarily new(er)users who sign on to m.s just because it's the default, or just because it was easiest (I started at m.s.) As it gets bigger and more difficult to handle, these users are the ones who are going to get caught in the middle, and may end up leaving the #fediverse because of it. @pearlbear that is also my concern. It has the potential to harm everyone around.  @rysiek @pearlbear @thisismissem They have to start somewhere. I think the goal should be to get as many active folks who start at m.s to move off as possible. But I suspect you'd find most of the large numbers you are worried about aren't really committed to being on the fediverse to begin with. @ocdtrekkie @rysiek @thisismissem What does that even mean "committed to being on the fediverse to begin with"? For most people, you don't get committed to being on the fediverse until you have experience with it. And your experience with it will determine your level of commitment. Most people don't join the fediverse knowing, or being committed to the philosophy of it. @pearlbear @rysiek @thisismissem I think there's a huge amount of people just checking out briefly who churn through the m.s number. I browse our local a lot and it's almost entirely garbage. If you're afraid of the blast radius of m.s going away, stop over here and spend some time on our local timeline. @ocdtrekkie if the churn is so high, maybe that's another reason not to put new people by default on an instance that, as you say yourself, has "garbage" local timeline? 🤔 @rysiek @pearlbear @thisismissem For a large instance or Twitter analogue, the local timeline just isn't a good way to browse. Imagine a feed of every post on Twitter. I think folks benefit from eventually moving somewhere with a tighter community though, yes. @rysiek @pearlbear @thisismissem But it would give you a very different idea of the server than you might have looking solely at the stats. @ocdtrekkie you are making a very good argument for not making m.s the default instance for new people. It's a different argument to the one I've been making, but it's still a good one. @ocdtrekkie find me a way to prove this, and I will calm down. In the meantime, I will work with the data that is available, thanks.  @pearlbear @rysiek @thisismissem @ocdtrekkie i very much agree with this, as someone who started at m.s in 2017 @pearlbear Yes and I also worry that trolls will target Black and queer people specifically. The crypto spam is just annoying, like all spam, but after the very specific targeting of high profile activist Black women who moved to Mastodon from Twtr (leaving their new address on Twtr) after the November exodus, I worry that will be repeated. @rysiek @thisismissem @ocdtrekkie @Lucinda basically, Mastodon-the-company is making promises all around, to others on fedi and to new people joining fedi being funneled onto m.s, that m.s will always be moderated amazingly well. And I don't think they will be able to keep these promises. Which, due to the "Mastodon-is-fedi" thing, will reflect very poorly on all of fedi. @rysiek @Lucinda @pearlbear @thisismissem There will definitely be other servers that are there, but I think a key part of moderation is having a team with wide coverage, not just "issues will get fixed when admin wakes up next". @ocdtrekkie or having a small enough community that a single mod/admin can handle it when they wake up. @rysiek @Lucinda @pearlbear @thisismissem It's less about the volume but the response time. Though I am excited about the possibility of something like IFTAS helping smaller servers moderate above their scale.  @rysiek @Lucinda @pearlbear @thisismissem @ocdtrekkie trolls are *constantly* targeting folk on here; but they more often use their own smaller instances, behind the scenes instance admins are constantly defederating those. To be fair many medium-size/larger instance admins /do/ stomp on troll accounts quite quickly as they don't want to risk being defederated @rysiek @Lucinda @pearlbear @thisismissem @ocdtrekkie there's however a problem due to the international nature of Fedi, timezones and potential language barriers, I remember a few years back trolls from Western countries targeting Japanese run instances to take advantage of the 8 hour time differences. The solution to this is to recruit a very multicultural range of mods who know multiple languages and are active in different time zones (which some instances do now have)  @rysiek @thisismissem @pearlbear What major contacts on m.s? The most notable account besides the admin just migrated off it. @ocdtrekkie dunno maybe this guy for example: I'm sure you can find more if you choose to look. @rysiek @ocdtrekkie @pearlbear he's not exactly that active: 4d, 12d, etc.. but also, would you want an account like that on a smaller instance? @thisismissem the question was about major contacts. That's one of them. Are you guys trying to make me iterate through all ~220k+ active accounts on m.s to show that there are reasons to worry? Because that does not strike me as a sueful way to talk about this. @rysiek @thisismissem @pearlbear I am sure there would be *some* impact, but I just don't think there would be much. A few folks would migrate somewhere else ahead of time, and carry their followers with them automatically. A lot of bot accounts would get deleted. Not too much else. @ocdtrekkie cool, thank you for sharing your appraisal of the situation. I acknowledge that you disagree with my appraisal of the situation. And that you will not agree with my conclusions. 🤷♀️ @rysiek @ocdtrekkie @pearlbear I think that's saying a lot more about the community that existed on identi.ca than anything else. I'm fairly sure majority of my following is on my instance, i.e., local, not that I've done an analysis or anything. I think we under estimate how federated the network really is. The current user counts from Mastodon *include* accounts that have been migrated, which means, for instance, that I count as an m.s user when I'm actually on Hachyderm.io @thisismissem are you talking about monthly active accounts? Because that's what I've been talking about all this time. And the current MAU count on m.s is ~220k. So *again* I would like to see numbers on how many accounts get migrated daily compared to new signups. That said, I agree fedi is much, much more resilient than "OStatus-verse" ever was. My point is: I intend to keep it that way. |
Gregory's Server
@rysiek @thisismissem @pearlbear If mastodon.social went away (very unlikely), pretty much the entirety of the community would be wholly unaffected.
I referred to a group of people because it is not unique to you, but I am mostly tired of it. Again, it's not even remotely close to being a real problem.