@coachtony @IceCubesApp My gut feeling is that anyone who feels the need to write that second paragraph is talking about something different than sponsoring and should not be involved in open source. Back a good project and build both image and a better internet for everyone, don’t try to steer things.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp I think that IceCubes is an example of @dimillian's abilities and the versatility of open source and SwiftUI. He is a rare developer who listens to his users a lot. I don't think there is a way to capitalize on this project while keeping it open source, though

@coachtony my sense is that no one has any problem with folks making money, but are going to be extremely suspicious of any wealthy entity offering “help” because the track record of privacy intrusion is abysmal.

Capitalism is only one narrow lens of understanding value. If supporting, I’d encourage y’all to look at it through a different one.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp @dimillian I think when you ask that question “how to make money” it changes some of the feeling around Ice Cubes. Sure it's a great app but it was also a labor of love from one individual who wrote very personal posts as he wrote and released it - that contributed to how many of us felt about the effort. I'm not saying making money or asking the question is wrong - I'm just saying it's different.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp

Fools rush in &c &c

#Capitalism is a tricky topic around #Mastodon only for those who are fundamentaly aware of the profound distinction between the #Oligarch / #Kleptocrat / #Rentier class (a tiny minority) of #Capitalists and the #WageSlave / #DebtorClass -- which consists of the vast majority of people on this planet

If you're a 1980s "He Who Dies With the Most Toys Wins" #Capitalist (See: #Musk, #Bezos et al) you'll get no participation from me

@coachtony @IceCubesApp I really like how you’re sparking this kind of discussion.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp Subscriptions. That's the only and most ethical and organic way to go. It works for a lot of open source projects. They can even be pay-what-you-want rather than fixed subscriptions, apart from donations.

Yes, it's open source and people can just download and build the source code, but majority of people would not do this (nor know how to) and would be happy to just chip in and support a project they love and rely on.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp Allow users to fund the roadmap and speed up the release of certain features based on certain thresholds? Fork a Medium version of Ice Cubes and include as part of subscription? Just do it and be very visible about Medium’s support and say that subscription would help fund it more— last one would work for me!

@coachtony @IceCubesApp suspect if it became a closed source paid app then someone would take the most recent open source version and maintain and update that as a free fork.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp So what you're proposing is to build a business on an open-source app, with the willing involvement of the app's developer.

Seems reasonable to me. I'd have no problem with paying for Fedilab.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp Premium version of app with additional customization options (themes, icons, layouts, etc.) compared to free/base version. Perhaps enable special features for users on the me.dm server.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp I don’t think Ice Cubes is at the vantage point to make this possible, but I think a good way I could see FOSS & commerce working together in the fediverse is through gating functionality of some kind. It would be great if apps like Mastodon allowed users to offer Patreon-style communities without having to rely on third parties.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp 58% of US adults own "an individual stock, a stock mutual fund, or a self-directed 401(k) or IRA." I'd like to see them welcomed on Mastodon, even if they are technically speaking, capitalists.

@coachtony I support what I can where I can. With that said I also don't have a lot of disposable income. I would need more information before giving you a better answer then that.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp I think you could make ice cubes subscription while keeping its source open.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp I think it’s important to draw a line between the development and avoid the potential (or accusation of) for engineering toward specific use-cases or end users; in this regard, the existing funding tool - patreon - seems to work well. Forks are also to be avoided, if the only purpose is political. It’s already working fine - any sponsor-driven changes will tank its reputation.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp Are these two separate issues here? How to sponsor additional development and how to generate revenue through the app (for the developer or for Medium…)?

@coachtony I’m enjoying the open source model of IceCubes. If you plan to inject capital, how about injecting in a different app? Why take IceCubes into a money-making (subscription) direction?

@coachtony @IceCubesApp FWIW I have zero problem with companies making money in and around Mastodon. The network needs that to succeed. So I would look at how best to enrich and help the lives of people who have income that depends on Mastodon. Promoting their work, interacting with wide communities (Mastodon instances normally tend to be quite siloed), special services on your instance etc

@coachtony @IceCubesApp Super opinionated opinion. 😁

https://rob.crabapples.net/2023/04/09/ice-cubes-medium.html

@coachtony @IceCubesApp Direct monetizing the app would be tough, but what if ice cubes had an onboarding flow that offered a trial medium subscription (including @me.dm account)? Or auto-suggested me.dm authors to follow based on hashtags? One could all the way to making icecubes a medium-branded app that was free to use for non-medium mastodon accounts. Branding, goodwill + easy subscription to core money maker.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp quick thought: charge a monthly fee for one or more optional algorithmic feeds that help me keep up with my feed based on engagement (maybe with extra weight for engagement by people I follow) and/or let me tweak for things like “never miss a post from this person”.

Existing tools are inadequate and require visiting a separate website and waiting for a new feed to load. The client could do this in the background much more elegantly.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp pretty sure you could make Medium/IceCubes the best server/client experience by adding small usability features that require changes on both the server and client. I’d encourage you not to make a Mastodon fork, but instead to make a simply-better end-to-end experience that it will take everything else longer to reach.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp taking an open source app and trying to monetize it will always be fraught. If you want to make money off of Mastodon, then make a paid instance or a NEW app that costs money (like Ivory). Taking an open source app and trying to make it “the medium experience” is a bad idea. If the developer didn’t want to make a free open source app, then he shouldn’t have.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp One quick thought that may severely limit/influence the options. I don't think you can go to Medium specific or create a super cool experience that would be limited to iOS only.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp lock in a tab for the medium masto instance?

@coachtony Sponsor development without requiring a profit. Decentralized communication is a public good, not a profit center :)

@coachtony @IceCubesApp just ask for donations/patreon/ etc.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp That sounds like a waste of time since it's limited to Apple devices. Windows has a 69% desktop market share, Android dominates mobile at 70%. Probably should look into integrating ActivityPub with Medium, monetize publications with advanced features, offer paid plans to add Substack-like features, allow writers to pay to boost articles, add built-in tipping feature so readers don't leave Medium. Many other ways to monetize Medium while helping writers earn more.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp
Certainly donations/Patreon is reasonable, but what if, sort of like a mobile game, every now and then the app itself would prompt you to watch a quick ad or fill out a small survey… I would be more than happy to do that. I don’t see anything wrong with support by advertisers, it is a model that has worked for generations, and when done correctly allows for something to maintain its integrity, but still be profitable, at least enough to keep surviving, which is what we all want.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp my thoughts: It appears to be only Apple, so I don't care because I don't exist inside that walled garden.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp Happy to pay a subscription for @IceCubesApp , don’t use and don’t want to pay a subscription to Medium

@coachtony @IceCubesApp Open source apps should stay open source. If they didn’t actually want to create an open source app, they shouldn’t have in the first place. In no way, shape or form an I interested in an open source app turning into a closed source subscription model. Plenty of other, much MUCH larger open source apps have managed this just fine for years without all the sudden charging users (or crippling the free versions to the point of being useless.)

@coachtony @IceCubesApp As someone who makes a FOSS app, I feel like you're missing the point in the second paragraph. FOSS development isn't about money; it's about making the best thing possible with the help of the community. There are people who have helped me make my app so much better than it possibly could have been, thanks to me not making it closed source just for a bit of extra money.

For reference, my app: https://github.com/jmshrv/finamp

@coachtony @IceCubesApp

“open source demo” IceCubes is much more than a demo, it is a full fledged client, one of the most beloved. referring to it as merely a demo insults both the developer and users

“sponsoring development…how to make money” Twitter never made money from bootstrap. sponsor the app to foster goodwill, or don’t.

you want to know what i think? i think you’re clueless and as a result of your post i think much less of medium as an organization.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp What exactly do you intend to accomplish, beyond the existing arrangement, where people can make one-time payments for the app, and sometimes contribute code if they are able?

It's a fantastic app, one I've paid money towards, but you'll lose me, and likely many others, if you try to turn it into a Medium delivery platform, or lock features behind a recurring subscription.

Just what does Medium think it brings to the table, that the Apple app store does not?

@coachtony @IceCubesApp

I am very happy to support the developer of @IceCubesApp But why should I support Medium!
The app was developed by a single developer for the joy and love of it.
Medium, it seems to me, just wants a piece of the pie.
I don't see that at all.
It's very curious that the developer doesn't ask himself. 😠😠

@coachtony @IceCubesApp This is always tricky. I agree with others to keep “core” Ice Cubes free and under development and develop user supported work on top. Search in the Fediverse would be an area where finding and supporting a solution might be a good spot to start.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp since it’s open source, would it be possible to have a forked/branched (not a developer, sorry) paid version - this has the added benefit of keeping the original independent, and able to choose what goes back into it, while a more revenue focused branch can be rebranded, leverage Medium subscriptions and extend/integrate Medium specific capabilities and extended features that might make their way back to the core Ice Cubes app (even as IAP)

@coachtony @IceCubesApp
Personally, I respect any app who asks for a one-time payment. I paid $14 for my mobile music app. One-time $14 then it’s mine. I’m happy with that.

There was a demo version so I knew what I was paying for and was happy to encourage the developer with this. One-time payment to unlock some advanced features is good as well (as long as they’re not security or privacy features).

Subscription for apps I never do though.

@coachtony Second paragraph is a red flag. Go away.

@coachtony @IceCubesApp The continued funding of Mastodon, client apps, and the Fediverse in general is an important topic, but characterizing Ice Cubes as a "demo" feels a little dismissive.