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David Revoy

I posted earlier today a poll about AI Art because I wanted the feedback of my followers (the post was limited to them). The 775 results (picture under) and the replies helped me:

I'll not use AI Art on Pepper&Carrot.

At least, not as it is done now: with all copyright issues (I also don't think these issues will be ever addressed correctly, TBH).

Time to move on now and continue to make human art.
Thank you very much for your feedback in my times of doubt :blobcatheart: .

The screencapture of the result of a poll:
Question: What's your opinion? Should I use generative A.I.Art in Pepper&Carrot?
Answers:
- 14%: Yes, if it helps: paint over it, embrace it fully.
- 13%: Yes, but only as reference images or inspiration.
- 49%: No, don't change anything.
- 25%: I don't know or I don't have enough information.
775 people

The capture overlay a pencil sketch of Pepper and carrot hugging her godmothers, the ending of episode 17 "A fresh Start". the old witches are surprised.
24 comments
momo

@davidrevoy
"Les esprits que j'ai réveillés
ne veulent plus m'écouter"

Bien que tes suivants ne veulent pas la magique de la intelligence artificielle.

:heart_pan: jo

@davidrevoy I voted for yes if it helps because I think people should use whatever tools they can to make things easier for themselves.

I think your audience is saying they don’t think you need the help, and in hindsight I rather agree with them. Your work is very good without it. ♥️

Adam

@davidrevoy Thank you for continuing to create human art.

[DATA EXPUNGED]
Cyber Yuki

@davidrevoy AI art seems to have the same bad aura that NFTs had. Those who would smear themselves with that will only lose community support.

David Revoy

@yuki2501 Thanks! Yes, you are right, the mass protestation on Artstation really darken the aura of this technology on a political level. It might become just 'immoral' to use it soon.

Note: see this morning the "Round Two, you are not listening" on artstation.com 's frontpage: the user put pressure on Epic Game, owner of Artstation to engage a lawsuit. The Concept Art Association is also engaging in one, btw, but still in the middle of funding it gofundme.com/f/protecting-arti

@yuki2501 Thanks! Yes, you are right, the mass protestation on Artstation really darken the aura of this technology on a political level. It might become just 'immoral' to use it soon.

Note: see this morning the "Round Two, you are not listening" on artstation.com 's frontpage: the user put pressure on Epic Game, owner of Artstation to engage a lawsuit. The Concept Art Association is also engaging in one, btw, but still in the middle of funding it gofundme.com/f/protecting-arti

David Cross

@davidrevoy Something that could be interesting is the use of AI on your art, with an AI trained on your art, and only your art (and that would address your copyright and moral issues as well)

David Revoy

@david Very true, and I tried to have a look at how to do that. But I quickly saw it would take me a lot of time , disk space, and CPU time only to get a smart collage (because my sample being not billions of images, but hundreds, maximum a thousand). I'll also would have to provide description for each picture. Well, I think it's at this point my laziness just quick-in and I abandoned the idea. Maybe something for the future if it get simpler. 🙂

Hgmarty

@davidrevoy Salut, je n'avais pas vu ces questions. J'aurais fait comme la moitie des personnes. Il me semble que l'ia enleve de la saveur comme une compote dans un saladier qui fait saliver (1er effet kiss cool) mais on nous dit qu'elle est achetee, elle fait quand meme moins envie (2eme m). On pourrait parler de la valeur du travail/temps et tant de choses. Cela pourrait faire un sujet pour les jeunes en juin.
et de toute facon la reponse te revient. Bonne journee

Nartagnan ⏚

@davidrevoy

J'ai voté "non", mais je veux apporter 2 précisions :

1) je te fais pleinement confiance pour faire le mieux, et si tu décide de l'utiliser ça ne me posera pas de problèmes.

2) idée comme ça : entraîner ta propre IA libre, avec uniquement tes dessins, pour l'inspiration, les fonds/paysages, etc... c'est juste un pinceau compliqué. (même si je sais pas si politiquement ça vaut le coup d'ouvrir cette porte)

3) merci pour tout ^^

David Revoy

@nartagnan Merci pour le retour! Oui, je ne sais pas si ça vaut le coup. j'ai été voir, c'est bien trop d'espace disque, de temps, et de calcule CPU quand je compare à la vitesse de ce que je sais déjà faire sans en fait. GMIC est en train d'experimenter (au moins, c'était le cas en Septembre) nitter.net/gmic_eu/status/1574 , et si des 'smart filters' arrivent par ce biais pour GIMP et Krita, ça serait cool, surtout si c'est entrainé proprement (et j'en ne doute pas que ça le serait.)

Nartagnan ⏚

@davidrevoy

Je ne comprend pas bien ce que seraient ces "smart filter" mais ça a l'air vachement + intéressant (en terme "d'empuissantement") que l'IA actuelle qui fait à ta place.

(ne t'embête pas à expliquer, déjà que je comprend pas la différence entre toutes les brosses. Je sais juste que tu en a fait pleins, et que des amies à moi ont dit que c'était génial, ça me suffit ^^)

David Revoy

@nartagnan Haha, ok. Mais sinon, c'est dans la même veine que GMIC Stylize (déjà dans Krita), en cliquant aléatoirement dans cette courte demo sans commentaire, on voit ce que ça peut déjà faire (sans A.I.) youtube.com/watch?v=RSP4PinlTs

Erik Brown

@davidrevoy copyright is the modern version of the Enclosure Movement.

David Revoy

@erikbrown157 I missed the historical baggage to first get the comparison. But then I went to read en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosur , and it was more clear after that. TIL.
Maybe the comparison is wrong, because in the case of art and pictures; they always have been under Copyright to start with (and not common goods), and the A.I dataset are not really changing the license. Maybe they even pretends to do the reverse: laundering © style into Public Domain (of course, NO) , eg: lexica.art/?q=moebius

Ben Yafai

@davidrevoy
I voted no, but the more I think in it I’m not bothered.
I see an interesting AI “driven background/scenery” with the human “foreground/subject” being an interesting area to explore, maybe you could even give that a try, if it would work.

David Revoy

@ben Hey, no problem. Yes, a lot of usages exists and I have already an idea how. It can be a valid tool and workflow speed in the right hands.

But I decided it is too early and I'll not use any A.I. trained on unethical big data set (all of them , right now).

I found the description of the fundraiser made by the Concept Art Association to engage law suit and protect artist against actual AI very well written: gofundme.com/f/protecting-arti

Thanks for your feedback!

@ben Hey, no problem. Yes, a lot of usages exists and I have already an idea how. It can be a valid tool and workflow speed in the right hands.

But I decided it is too early and I'll not use any A.I. trained on unethical big data set (all of them , right now).

I found the description of the fundraiser made by the Concept Art Association to engage law suit and protect artist against actual AI very well written: gofundme.com/f/protecting-arti

Léa in the sky 🪁

@davidrevoy thank you for being open minded about it! I do hope one day we'll be able to use those tools without stealing from others 🙏

David Revoy

@leavt Thank you and same ☺️ From what I see, it might comes from GMIC in the Free/Libre world, not like a prompt machine, but more like Filters on steroids. I saw the author doing this in September: nitter.net/gmic_eu/status/1574

Henri Hebeisen

@davidrevoy Hi David ! About the copyright issue, I guess the copyright issue can be easily adressed if AI uses a dataset with images that only have the right licence, for example CC-0 ? Or maybe we need a new level in the CC licence that allows AI derivation ?
Anyway, from what I've seen, all these images generators are not that useful for highly skilled artists like you, you would spend as much time fixing the AI drawing as drawing it from stratch.For now at least, we'll see how it evolves!

David Revoy

@henrih Hey Henri! 👋 Good to find you here (because my Tw account is just now a sort of copy/paste of news from the blog, and I removed almost all account I followed to clean TL)

Yes, true, if the model were trained with a dataset of CC-0 / Public Domain, it would be totally fine to use it as just 'yet another smart filter'.
For sure,it could help at texturing (even on 2D, eg. photobash overlay style) or create quick thumbnails composition, and test various quick moods. I hope we'll see that.

raphael

@davidrevoy re copyright issues and pessimism at these ever being addressed: that, i think is really the most tragic part of this all.

an artist friend yesterday said that for her, an artist with aphantasia (she doesn’t get ‘inner pictures’ in her imagination), generative imagery could’ve been such a useful tool. in an ideal world, she said, there would’ve been such a tool trained on everything that’s public domain or freely given to that cause. with restrictions on direct commercial usage of its results, and so on.

and maybe we could’ve gotten there. had this slowly grown from proofs of concept in academia, some ‘try at home’ enthusiasm without those huge pre-trained models, and so on. it would’ve taken so much longer. but there would’ve been time to tackle each of the really big problems it brought with it.

but we couldn’t have that because techbros and their insufferable ‘move fast and break things’ (as naomi wu pointed out: move fast and break things favours the financially stable, which artists tend not to be en masse) and ‘better to ask forgiveness than permission’.

@davidrevoy re copyright issues and pessimism at these ever being addressed: that, i think is really the most tragic part of this all.

an artist friend yesterday said that for her, an artist with aphantasia (she doesn’t get ‘inner pictures’ in her imagination), generative imagery could’ve been such a useful tool. in an ideal world, she said, there would’ve been such a tool trained on everything that’s public domain or freely given to that cause. with restrictions on direct commercial usage of its...

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