 The general public doesn’t adopt digital technologies. It adopts products. People don’t use TCP/IP and HTTP. They browse websites on the web with a browser. They don’t use SMTP and IMAP. They send and receive emails. One of the toughest challenges of our time is to develop appealing products and open standards simultaneously. Those are primarily not technical but social and political problems. 31 comments
 @MichalBryxi @thibaultamartin The hard part is that anything made through capitalism will never serve the user any more than it begrudgingly has to. Thus, the layers that serve the user must be produced separately from the substrates on which they can exist.  @dalias @MichalBryxi @thibaultamartin The information on, say, exactly what makes your password store secure *can* however be made available. Same with what the envelope icon does. It doesn't have to be "in your face", though. Those two aren't mutually exclusive. "Here's a list of the standards our software implements." "Here's a technical whitepaper on exactly how our cryptography works." Those who care can read, and encourage those who just want to solve a problem to use the good stuff. 🙂 @mkj @dalias @thibaultamartin 100% more information is better. The original idea, as I see it, is that utility for end user has to come first. Without it, all the implementation details are pointless. After all: Tech without "target customer" is just "eh" @MichalBryxi As far as that goes, we are in agreement! It shouldn't be necessary to wade through details to figure out what something does. (And similarly, it shouldn't be necessary to wade through marketing goobledygook to figure out what something does, either. Far too many companies are so into their own products and services that they completely fail at concisely conveying the actual value proposition to someone not already in the know. Big fail.) @mkj @MichalBryxi @thibaultamartin Usually the value proposition is either nothing at all or something that would make both the buyer and seller look very bad if stated in a non obfuscated manner. @thibaultamartin this was a very hard conversation to have with #openweb spaces and #FOSS developers https://hamishcampbell.com/?s=foss Used this here https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/socialhub-made-by-you/4580/45?u=hamishcampbell @hamishcampbell @thibaultamartin If I had to guess why, it's because "this needs to become easier" resembles the big tech argument of "the user is too dumb" used to actively beat back rights/choice/control around hardware and software products that consumers buy. It also clashes somewhat with the hacker/purist ideal of grinning and bearing a steeper learning curve to achieve fuller mastery of the machine. But of course tech can work for both tinkerers and not. It's not either/or. @thibaultamartin I borrowed your toot to add this point https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/socialhub-made-by-you/4580/45?u=hamishcampbell @thibaultamartin Exactly this. Most people don't care if something is better for their privacy or not owned by an evil conglomerate. They just want it to work flawlessly, look beautiful and have an their contacts on it too.  @vervain @thibaultamartin  @thibaultamartin this is one of the issues that many open source projects have had for a long time: they are being started and developed by people who primarily care for the "how", the technical feasibility of an implementation, not so much about the "what" and the "why" of an every day user. Luckily, that has become better for some projects, but it's still a huge divide for others.  @pjakobs @thibaultamartin Speaking of @interpeer specifically, it is a huge challenge. We have to develop the tech, and then also products later on. And whatever funding we may get has to reach all that way into the future. The way I'm trying to tackle that is to get other sectors interested in the tech, so we may get some special purpose funding. It's not a straight line from here to there, then, but if I can sustain it, it'll be worth it. But in the meantime folk keep asking when they can... @pjakobs @thibaultamartin ... try "it" out, as if it was a product. The challenge is similar to that @librecast faces. @jens @pjakobs @thibaultamartin @interpeer @LinHead @pjakobs @thibaultamartin @interpeer Which part, "not a straight line"? If so, I'm sorry. @jens @pjakobs @thibaultamartin @interpeer The challenge to bring understanding (not knowledge) and the understanding that they have to invest some work to the people plus sime money so they have the products they need, not the ones the tech-bros make them believe they want. @thibaultamartin The thing we oh so quickly forget: Standards and interoperability are the domain of governments and regulators, not capitalist corporations. It has always been that way and it *will* always be that way. @sbb @thibaultamartin I find myself returning to that chart again and again. Also, it’s worth pointing out what eg. lvl. 2 is: “An example of level-2 task is “You want to find a sustainability-related document that was sent to you by John Smith in October last year.” “  @tokefrello @sbb @thibaultamartin “ouch, that’s not a very technical task” and “I actually have no idea how I would do it on the terrible mail and document systems I am required to use for work” @ThreeSigma @sbb @thibaultamartin Yeah, me too. The systems they tested on were generic and built for the test, as far as I understand, so I’ve been assuming that they’re not as messy as, say, Outlook - but I don’t know. In the end, I guess the statement “*For some reason*, 70% of people can’t do what should be a pretty basic task on computers.” is still pretty bleak, and something that should be accounted for in design of public digital services etc. @thibaultamartin Yeah, I agree in a way. I feel we should worry about products first. In an ideal world, then teams behind products can recommend a standard based on what was built and people adopt it. Like software engineering patterns are discovered rather than invented. But we got something that is actively being used. The next step is then to adopt a new standard in a live product. But we do this right now also (e.g. browsers changing to a new http standard). @thibaultamartin product makers don’t have any incentive to support standards unless the standard compels them to do so. @thibaultamartin It’s amazing how hard this message is to spread. It’s as if the people who make things don’t interact with potential customers! 😏  @thibaultamartin "there's no demand for IPv6". Of course not. Only 0.001% of folk *should* care about IP protocol types. What people and organisations want is that their apps and services work, which means upgrading the legacy Internet to something that works with the quantities we face today, at the qualities demanded.  @thibaultamartin Also, I'm not sure if your post is implying that there should be some way to create standardized products. PCs are somewhat standardized products because of the efforts of Microsoft, Apple, etc. Obviously, if products are not standardized then they are just gadgets... high opacity and usually single-purpose. |
Gregory's Server
@thibaultamartin 100% this. I don't care if the envelope icon spawns a currier pigeon. I don't want to know what and how makes my password store secure. I handwave the details of how I get the information I'm looking for.
Tech for itself is not the goal. Serving the end user is.