@drewdevault neurodiversity is orthogonal to being an asshole. I learned that the hard way, be very careful not to excuse all asshole-ish behaviour with "it's just their mental problems", or they'll use it against you and you'll end up stepping on the rusty nails they left pointing face-up on the living-room floor you both frequently walk through barefoot despite you SPECIFICALLY telling them not to, and then they'll try to gaslight you and act like you're crazy.

@drewdevault That argument makes about as much sense as "I am in a wheelchair therefore I deserve to beat up others with a stick".

@drewdevault I think that this argument borders on being offensive to neurodivergent people. It suggests that ND people can't help themselves or strive to improve and correct harmful behaviour. Whether the people making such a statement intend to or not it suggests they view ND people as forever something like a child or pet, but maybe worse because even children and pets can learn from mistakes.

@drewdevault as an actual autistic and (self diagnosed) ADHD person I say that doesn't excuse shitty behavior in some contexts it might explain it, but even then if the behavior continues after a clear explanation on why it was shitty that is on the individual. So no calling out Mr. Stallman for his shitty behavior is neither discriminatory nor ableist, he had plenty of time and explanations already

@drewdevault while it doesn't excuse behaviour, I think it does grant people a do-over if they fuck up and apologise. Stallman apologised and admitted he was wrong, so for me that's enough.

@drewdevault i'm neurodivergent, his behaviour is not related or relevant in the context of neurodiversity

problematic behaviour is what it is: problematic.

there are a lot of neurodivergent people out there that are able to carry themselves in a way that doesn't make anyone unsafe or harm victims of sexual assault.

making neurodivergence an excuse for this behaviour only worsens the perception of neurodiversity in my opinion.

Richard Stallman should be held accountable, regardless

@drewdevault My first question: Who are you and what are you doing? I see no bio here or on your website, and you open with enraging horseshit. What makes this worth someone's time?

@drewdevault Being neurodivergent is no excuse for behavior like that. We all live in the same society to treat each other with respect and while those social contracts might be harder for others to remember/grasp it does not excuse their behavior.

Context: I'm autistic and have an autistic 11 year old boy. I try to teach him respect for his fellow humans moreso than most other things. The stakes are MUCH higher for him if he forgets those contracts, even for a moment in the wrong setting.

@drewdevault It feels like there are a lot of different things this type of defense implies (presumably intentionally).

If they're saying "Richard is ND and therefore has a different idea of appropriate sexual behaviour", then he can learn. If they're saying "Richard is ND and therefore cannot behave appropriately", then I think this is just not true (of ND people in general but also specifically Richard) and anyway it means he just can't be in a position of power safely, no matter why.

@drewdevault This view of neurodivergence as meaning we aren't responsible for the consequences of our actions is incredibly infantilising. It harms all of us because it justifies denying our agency.

It also trivialises the huge amount of energy many of us put into hiding the facets of our personalities that NTs find uncomfortable but actually harm no-one.

@drewdevault the thing with RMS is that there were people around him, some who didn't call him out.

But some folks in his circles did tell him his behaviour was problematic. But he didn't feel inclined to listen to them.

It took major public attention to even get an apology. That behaviour over years helped to contribute to the attitude in Free Software.

But that attitude isn't unique to tech.

Neuro divergence isn't an excuse for abusive behaviour. Especially when it's doubled down on.

@drewdevault I consider myself neurodivergent but not a psychologist so this is my uninformed opinion. (Edit, didn't include "not")

Seems reasonable that having thought processes different from the norm leads to different intuition, and different life experiences (sheltered) which lead to different beliefs.

As I understood these are now his former beliefs.

@drewdevault
As someone who is neurodivergent, RMS can completely fuck off.
One thing worth noting is that sometimes the least accepting/accommodating people are other neurodivergent people. After all, I managed to surpass these issues, so why can't you? TBH it took me awhile to notice the behavior in myself and start to correct it. However, I just can't square that with how much of an asshole RMS is.
1/...

@drewdevault this argument would mean that our neurodivergency is completely determinant on our thoughts and opinions and that we have zero agency, but also that those shitty opinions are somehow inherent for people with his (supposed) neurodivergent status which makes no sense

@drewdevault Well, I guess this is as good a time as any to "come out": turns out I'm neurospicy as fuck (TL;DR). I mean, I haven't been hiding it.

Can Stallman's behavior be explained by his being neurodivergent? Yes and no.

Yes, sometimes he writes things that are brutally logical in a particular way that seems very neurodivergent to me, and which also manages to stomp all over people's sensibilities in exactly the way NT folk use to claim we can't read or even experience emotions. 1/n

@drewdevault As a neurodivergent person myself, you lost me in the first bit, so I'm going to ask: in which way does neurodivergence explain his harmful behaviours?

@drewdevault Sure. I'd rather like him to stop using neurodivergence as an excuse for his paedophilia and any other paraphilias he might have. I'm a nearly-40-year-old neurodivergent and have no issues with consent, or the age thereof. RMS needs to get help to deal with these issues, not use legitimate conditions to legitimise his.

Reply to this post if you're ND and want to help review the draft of this blog post

@drewdevault I agree with what seems to be the growing consensus: it's actually more ableist to determine all of someone's misbehaviours are down to their neurodiversity/neurodivergence.

If I believed in neurodivergent-determinalism, I'd have no choice but to be the moody, volatile, "random", and generally assinine character I spent my teens cementing in everyone's mind and my 20s and 30s deconstructing.

Okay, I think the article is almost ready

@drewdevault from my point of view, I do believe that some of that person's nerurodivergence can come into play with that, however, a bigger chunk is most likely associated with upbringing... the whole nature vs nurture thing. I believe that there's interplay and sometimes people need to take the time to unlearn what was erroneously taught to them either through trauma or a harmful authority figure who most likely wasn't neurodivergent.