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Alyx

@EUCommission thank you so much for killing a better port than USB-C, the lightning one. It’s so cool to see how much e-waste you created with this. Huge win for the planet for sure 👌

(If you are a person reading this, don’t come to laugh at me, we both hate e-waste. I don’t see how this would not create more e-waste over few years while Apple and their users are moving to USB-C. You disagree with the port being better, you disagree with how I see things e-waste wise, I don’t mind at all, it’s ok. At the end of the day, if we were IRL, we would just agree that e-waste is bad, and corporations are fucking us, and cars and yadiyada.)

19 September at 9:14 | Wall-to-wall | Open on eldritch.cafe
24 comments
Latte macchiato :blobcoffee: :ablobcat_longlong:
Lea (headpat dispenser)
LN

@alyx @EUCommission If Apple had opened up Lightning to other devices and device makers maybe you'd have a point but their licensing has even led to third-party headphones using "lightning plus Bluetooth" because they can only use the cable for power and need to fall back to Bluetooth for the actual audio.

19 September at 10:44 | Open on hachyderm.io
Alyx

@ln But that’s not my point, it’s not a golden thing for sure, it’s just that bragging about keeping e-waste volume down while creating some feels wrong. They could have accepted to force all new devices to USB-C, most of the market was already aligning on this anyway, and allow Apple to carry on with the lightning one. They would have switched anyway at some point.
Please don’t attack me personally over this, it would be the third time over this, I don’t have the mind space for this today 🙇🥺

19 September at 10:48 | Open on eldritch.cafe
BlossomingAsp

@alyx @EUCommission I'm not sure I understand what your logic is behind this. We can't have greedy corporations roll out their propreitary connectors just to abandon them a fews years down the line. I couldn't care less if we have USB-C or Lightning as the standard or something else. As long as it works and it is available to everyone. But Apple never had the intention to make Lightning available for other manufacturers. Besides, they already started using USB-C for data a few years ago...

19 September at 10:50 | Open on snaggletooth.life
Alyx

@BlossomingAsp I hope this answer your question eldritch.cafe/@alyx/1131638216
Let me know - respectfully - if not

19 September at 10:51 | Open on eldritch.cafe
BlossomingAsp

@alyx I hope you didn't take it personally, it was not an attack at you, I don't know you. If you believe that it would be okay to make an exception for Apple on this, I understand your point, I just don't agree with it. 😅 But fair enough, we can have different opinions. Again, I hope you didn't take it personally, I didn't want to be mean. And thanks for taking the effort to reply.

19 September at 11:45 | Open on snaggletooth.life
Alyx

@BlossomingAsp No worries no worries, I was just scared it was going to be unrespectful like some mentions I had 😩 I should not take these personally. I appreciate your concern.
Yeah plus like I said to others, at the end of the day, we are aligned, we hate e-waste and - I guess - other ecological nightmares going on around the world. I’m sure if we were facing each other we would have a nice conversation and the disagreement would not last more than 30s haha.
Thank you again for being so kind and respectful, I had a rough morning 🩷

@BlossomingAsp No worries no worries, I was just scared it was going to be unrespectful like some mentions I had 😩 I should not take these personally. I appreciate your concern.
Yeah plus like I said to others, at the end of the day, we are aligned, we hate e-waste and - I guess - other ecological nightmares going on around the world. I’m sure if we were facing each other we would have a nice conversation and the disagreement would not last more than 30s haha.
Thank you again for being so kind...

19 September at 11:54 | Open on eldritch.cafe
Andrew

@alyx @EUCommission i really don't understand this take, like, for sure scrapping apple's weird nonstandard cables will really in some waste, but how is that anyone's fault but apple's?

19 September at 12:25 | Open on mathstodon.xyz
Alyx

@andrewt IIRC when they switched away from their 30 pins cable the standard was mini or micro USB which was really shitty. Lightning was ahead of its time, and they had no reason to scrap it until USB-C came around and was not so bad. My personal opinion is that lightning is a better experience, you don’t have to look where to plug the cable thanks to the rounded edges, and it clicks nicely. But USB-C is good enough.
So I don’t think it’s Apple fault. If they had switched to every USB standard they would have ended with much more port than just the 30 pins and lightning. Sure though if the standard was open, maybe everyone would had aligned on it, I agree with this.
I think it would have been better if both USB-C and Lightning could have lived together longer for a smoother transition.
But again like I said to now like 5 people, we are aligned: we don’t like e-waste. Let’s not fight. I just don’t agree that it’s reducing e-waste.

@andrewt IIRC when they switched away from their 30 pins cable the standard was mini or micro USB which was really shitty. Lightning was ahead of its time, and they had no reason to scrap it until USB-C came around and was not so bad. My personal opinion is that lightning is a better experience, you don’t have to look where to plug the cable thanks to the rounded edges, and it clicks nicely. But USB-C is good enough.
So I don’t think it’s Apple fault. If they had switched to every USB standard they...

19 September at 12:33 | Open on eldritch.cafe
Andrew

@alyx i guess i just think that the reason lightning was introduced was not "the existing standard usb ports just aren't up to the job" so much as "usb-c will be out in a couple of years and if we're still using the dock connector by then, people are going to want us to switch. better invent a new connector *now* that's just arguably better than usb-c and then we can keep our monopoly on iphone-compatible accessories and pretend like we didn't have a choice". it's cynical, sure, but like, this is the company that disabled progressive web apps altogether rather than support using them with any other browser than safari, this is exactly the kind of thing they would do. they don't give a shit about e-waste or security or whatever, those are just the nice reasons they tell you when asked why they've done something that's obviously anti-competitive

@alyx i guess i just think that the reason lightning was introduced was not "the existing standard usb ports just aren't up to the job" so much as "usb-c will be out in a couple of years and if we're still using the dock connector by then, people are going to want us to switch. better invent a new connector *now* that's just arguably better than usb-c and then we can keep our monopoly on iphone-compatible accessories and pretend like we didn't have a choice". it's cynical, sure, but like, this is...

19 September at 16:55 | Open on mathstodon.xyz
Alyx

@andrewt USB-C was not even designed when they release their lightning connector though. Wikipedia says that the design of USB-C started in 2012 and Lightning was introduced on September 2012.
They knew they had to switch, nothing was available, so they made their own. Agreed though that it’s not their kind to give away their design and open it to the world.

19 September at 18:07 | Open on eldritch.cafe
Andrew

@alyx I mean apple definitely knew something was on the horizon, though, right? They're in there usb forum and these bodies never do anything fast

And anyway, what do you mean "nothing was available"? Every other smartphone on the market was using micro-usb, and it was working just great. For sure, lightning's physical connector is nicer than micro-usb, but nice enough to warrant 12 years of having two competing form factors for basically the same thing? Nah

19 September at 18:54 | Open on mathstodon.xyz
Alyx

@andrewt Yeah probably, and it make sense they did not wanted to wait for them either.

Nothing good enough was available, yes. Micro USB was garbage, it’s night and day with lightning.

Anyway let’s leave the conversation here, I don’t really see the point, and I can feel the tone is not shifting to a pleasant conversation.

Have a nice day, or night.

19 September at 19:07 | Open on eldritch.cafe
Andrew

@alyx just to check, what do you mean by "garbage"? my understanding is that on a technical level the two connectors were more or less equivalent, pretty much just usb2 with a different connector? And, like, I can go on holiday with my switch, my laptop, both of their controllers, an iPad and my phone and take literally one charger and honestly Nintendo could release a switch charger that literally gives me an orgasm every time I plug it in and I think I'd still rather just have the one same charger for everything

20 September at 0:03 | Open on mathstodon.xyz
jramskov

@alyx @EUCommission You need to look at it more long term and the convenience is very nice too. I'm quite happy that I don't have any devices using Lightning cables anymore.
You could argue Lightning was better, but it's not an open standard. Apple could have made it an open standard many years ago and then it might have become the new standard, but Apple didn't. Don't blame the EU for that.

19 September at 14:13 | Open on helvede.net
Alyx
Alyx

@jramskov What happened to your lightning cables, btw?

19 September at 14:19 | Open on eldritch.cafe
jramskov

@alyx Most of them were getting so old and broken they barely worked - Apple's standard lightning cables weren't the most solid in the world. I have disposed of them at the local recycling station as it should be done.

19 September at 14:23 | Open on helvede.net
Alyx

@jramskov Don't you see my point at all with this question? Because this is what I meant. You were lucky (or unlucky idk) that your cables went bad when the switch happened, but for many others, it means working cables are now e-waste.
(I know you want to be right and are probably really angry right now and you want to answer me like I'm the worst person ever, please think twice, I already had bad interactions like 4 times since this morning.)

19 September at 14:30 | Open on eldritch.cafe
jramskov

@alyx
Why do you think I’m really angry? I'm not btw and I have no intention of making this into a big screaming contest :) But I don't think your argument is accurate. The cables have a certain lifetime, particularly Apples standard lightning cables in my experience. They will likely mostly live on together with the devices that uses them, until those devices are decomissioned. Will there be more e-waste for a short while? Perhaps a bit, but long term it will be less and easier for everyone.

19 September at 15:07 | Open on helvede.net
Alyx

@jramskov It's just that since this morning I had many replies and most of them were negative, even dismissing I was human so, I'm expecting the worst any time I have a new mention now.

Yeah I agree in the long run it does not matter, no matter if it's lightning or USB-C, it's a nightmare to find a cable that last many years (I have a U Green since a while, quite cheap on Amazon or Aliexpress if you are looking for new ones).
And I'm not sure it would be less in the long term, like if I was living with someone, each of us would have a charger and a cable anyway, I don't know anyone that is sharing a single charger and cable. Except in a car.

@jramskov It's just that since this morning I had many replies and most of them were negative, even dismissing I was human so, I'm expecting the worst any time I have a new mention now.

Yeah I agree in the long run it does not matter, no matter if it's lightning or USB-C, it's a nightmare to find a cable that last many years (I have a U Green since a while, quite cheap on Amazon or Aliexpress if you are looking for new ones).
And I'm not sure it would be less in the long term, like if I was living...

19 September at 15:14 | Open on eldritch.cafe
jramskov

@alyx The advantage is that devices don't come with a charger anymore and will potentially not include a cable either. That's not necessary since you likely already have one or more.
As for sharing cables, we certainly do - we have a central ”charging station” in the house where several devices (mobile phones, tablets, laptops) can be charged at once. We can't charge all devices at once, but the setup works pretty well for us. I also do my best to buy quality cables that last a long time.

19 September at 15:29 | Open on helvede.net
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