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Eniko | Kitsune Tails out now!'s posts Post Back to profile
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Piko Starsider :verified_paw:

@remenca You're missing the point. You can use CC0 data, but you don't because it's just not enough training data.

And I don't care about what you think about creativity. That wasn't the argument in the first place. This is about the human cost, the human effort. No matter how "hard" it is to train your model with unethically obtained data. YOU are not the one being creative here. And it shows.

18 September at 18:10 | Wall-to-wall | Open on valenciapa.ws
11 comments
Remença

@starsider

I think that you are the wrong here. Please tell me what's unethical about using this model.

huggingface.co/Mitsua/mitsua-d

18 September at 18:11 | Open on mastodont.cat
Piko Starsider :verified_paw:

@remenca The fact that I'm exposed to such horrid "art". As I already said, it's just not enough data. It gives terrible results.

18 September at 18:13 | Open on valenciapa.ws
Remença

@starsider

Can you please answer the question?

18 September at 18:14 | Open on mastodont.cat
Piko Starsider :verified_paw:

@remenca I answered it in the first sentence. I obviously ran on the assumption that you didn't use CC0 data. But if you do that's fine. It doesn't contradict my previous arguments. Or OP's argument for that matter. Regular artists (including the ones creating good procedural generation) obtain much better results than with any generative model, CC0 or not. And then, when we only consider CC0 data, the results are so much worse that I don't even know why you're using it as an argument in the first place.

18 September at 18:18 | Open on valenciapa.ws
Remença

@starsider

I am using it because you stated that there is no way to train a network on CC0'd data and some other bullshit, and I wanted to prove you wrong. Now that we have agreed on that and we can dismiss the "its unethical" argument, we can move to I never claimed that AI generated art is better than procedurally created art, I just said it was art, and now you are trying to play an strawman on me. I do not think that this conversation is in good faith, so I would like to conclude here.

18 September at 18:22 | Open on mastodont.cat
Piko Starsider :verified_paw: replied to Remença

@remenca I never claimed that you can't. I said that you don't (as in: people don't). It's unethical because the ethically obtained results are shit, plain and simple.

If you come in good faith you shouldn't have replied to a thread with an irrelevant argument in the first place. OP is not talking about that. I just wanted to explain _why_ it is irrelevant and why you got blocked by Eniko.

18 September at 18:27 | Open on valenciapa.ws
Remença replied to Piko Starsider :verified_paw:

@starsider

I replied like I replied because it makes me mad to see so many people shitting on AI, in a manner similar to Eniko. Not all AI is Sam Altman.

18 September at 18:28 | Open on mastodont.cat
Piko Starsider :verified_paw: replied to Remença

@remenca Eniko didn't even shit on AI in this thread. It's just a defense of procedural generation as "not AI".

It's me who shat on "AI". You have a hammer and everything looks like a nail to you. I'm tired of seeing uses of generative AI that gives worse results than other methods while spending much more energy to do so.

I think and I have always thought that machine learning is awesome. But capitalism ruined it for me, and for many people. You can't fault people for being mad at it, even if they don't understand the details. What matters are the consequences.

@remenca Eniko didn't even shit on AI in this thread. It's just a defense of procedural generation as "not AI".

It's me who shat on "AI". You have a hammer and everything looks like a nail to you. I'm tired of seeing uses of generative AI that gives worse results than other methods while spending much more energy to do so.

18 September at 18:38 | Open on valenciapa.ws
Remença replied to Piko Starsider :verified_paw:

@starsider

I fault people for putting the blame on AI when, as you are admitting, the blame is with capitalism.

But I don't know. Maybe you are right. I started researching AI years ago thinking that we were working to make a better world where people wouldn't need to work because machine would do it for us, and all I got is this exploitative genAI bullshit that makes climate change worse and makes people lose their jobs and I'm very mad at it. I think I'll change careers.

18 September at 18:47 | Open on mastodont.cat
Remença replied to Remença

@starsider

I'm tired that everyone treats AI like shit and thinks that all there is is grifters like OpenAI or anthropic. It didn't use to be like this. And every time I try to say "hey not everyone in AI is like this" I just get blocked. I'm sick of this.

18 September at 18:50 | Open on mastodont.cat
Piko Starsider :verified_paw: replied to Remença

@remenca The field of machine learning is bigger than generative models, and sometimes other type of models and other solutions are better. You don't need to change careers, particularly with this economy, where you would likely be replaced with someone else. Just don't be attached to it. If you want to defend machine learning in general you can make a clear distinction between it and generative "AI". And even if some uses of genAI are perfectly ethical I don't think you should be losing sleep because those ethical uses are unknown to the public. It doesn't really matter, you know?

@remenca The field of machine learning is bigger than generative models, and sometimes other type of models and other solutions are better. You don't need to change careers, particularly with this economy, where you would likely be replaced with someone else. Just don't be attached to it. If you want to defend machine learning in general you can make a clear distinction between it and generative "AI". And even if some uses of genAI are perfectly ethical I don't think you should be losing sleep because...

18 September at 19:38 | Open on valenciapa.ws
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