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AlexTECPlayz

@martenbjorklund @ploum The problem with Vivaldi is that it's still running on Chromium, so no, it doesn't resemble Mozilla, because it does nothing to the monopoly that Chromium has over browsers. Neither does Arc, Brave, etc.

18 September at 10:18 | Wall-to-wall | Open on techhub.social
7 comments
Mårten Björklund 🇸🇪

@alextecplayz @ploum Yea, that's just it, it's not only about the tech anymore, the organization behind the project matters even more, as this entire thread displays.

I was there when Netscape Navigator started working on Gecko in 1997 and I'm ditching it now.

18 September at 10:48 | Open on mastodon.nu
AlexTECPlayz

@martenbjorklund @ploum Yes, but again, Vivaldi (as a company) does nothing to move away from depending on Google. We need both, if we want a truly viable alternative to this monopoly.

18 September at 10:51 | Open on techhub.social
Mårten Björklund 🇸🇪

@alextecplayz @ploum True, right now.

Chromium is released under the BSD-license and is decoupled from Google.

Here is the code if you want to see for yourself: source.chromium.org/chromium

18 September at 10:55 | Open on mastodon.nu
AlexTECPlayz

@martenbjorklund @ploum Chromium is NOT decoupled from Google, despite the "Chromium Projects" umbrella, Chromium is not an independent entity from Google, plus the bulk of the commits are made by Google employees.

The same applies to Gecko and Firefox. They're both controlled and overseen by Mozilla Corporation, a subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation. Donations to the Foundation do not go towards Firefox or Gecko.

This solves nothing. While Chromium is very good when it comes to security, privacy (capabilities), performance compared to Gecko and WebKit, we can't solve the monopoly issue by promoting or developing more Chromium browsers.

Servo and Verso are coming along well, so they might be a viable alternative in like 5 years or so, but will Gecko and Firefox survive that long without being thoroughly infested and enshittified due to Mozilla's stupid decisions?

@martenbjorklund @ploum Chromium is NOT decoupled from Google, despite the "Chromium Projects" umbrella, Chromium is not an independent entity from Google, plus the bulk of the commits are made by Google employees.

The same applies to Gecko and Firefox. They're both controlled and overseen by Mozilla Corporation, a subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation. Donations to the Foundation do not go towards Firefox or Gecko.

18 September at 11:11 | Open on techhub.social
Mårten Björklund 🇸🇪

@alextecplayz @ploum You are correct, what I meant is that it is decoupled from Google services.

But again, that's not the point, the point is that the organisation behind a software project is MUCH MUCH more important than the tech right now.

18 September at 11:26 | Open on mastodon.nu
🔗 David Sommerseth

@martenbjorklund @alextecplayz @ploum

If you want an ungoogled Chromium ... this is the closest you get these days ...

ungoogled-software.github.io/

Some might find @Vivaldi a viable alternative as well - but not sure how deep they go into the code to decouple Google.

18 September at 14:08 | Open on infosec.exchange
Uraael

@alextecplayz@techhub.social @martenbjorklund@mastodon.nu @ploum@mamot.fr

So here's the problem, the catch-22 Vivaldi, and Opera before them, have been in since their creation.

* Everyone keeps finding a reason NOT to support them.
* Without the support, they stay small.
* At that size they cannot afford to look at making a whole new browser engine.
* Which becomes a reason NOT to support them.
* Without the support, they stay small...

...and so on.

In terms of Morals and Ethics they are and always have been what everyone hoped Mozilla were. They've been at the forefront of battling to keep the web open every chance they get, with Microsoft during the IE6 days and yes with Google during the Chrome days. They've even been bullied into spoofing themselves as Chrome to keep their browser functional. But they respect Privacy. They respect and champion open web standards. They publicly came out against AI.

If we don't rally behind someone that's going to do that for us we risk losing them too.

Imagine a world where Vivaldi had 30% browser share or more. Imagine what they could accomplish FOR US with that strength.

But we don't get there if everyone is always "Ew, Chromium".

@alextecplayz@techhub.social @martenbjorklund@mastodon.nu @ploum@mamot.fr

So here's the problem, the catch-22 Vivaldi, and Opera before them, have been in since their creation.

* Everyone keeps finding a reason NOT to support them.
* Without the support, they stay small.
* At that size they cannot afford to look at making a whole new browser engine.
* Which becomes a reason NOT to support them.
* Without the support, they stay small...

...and so on.

In terms of Morals and Ethics they are and...

18 September at 11:00 | Open on blahaj.zone
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