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Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

@waldschnecke it's important for Ukraine and people in danger because people choose to use it. We should guide them to safer alternatives instead, Telegram is putting people in harm's way.

I write about the encryption and why it is bad.

One of the main points is that Telegram is misleading people about it.

Secret Chats are unwieldy and limited, and have to be turned on explicitly for each contact separately – and thus almost nobody uses them.

But Telegram pretends everything is encrypted.

14 comments
Schneckbert 🐌

@rysiek Don't get me wrong; I agree with you!
But the fact they grabbed the CEO, and all this new attention... By that standard they should get to other CEO's too.

Of course it's a choice; but we also know it's difficult to make people change. I deleted Whatsapp years ago, I have lost contacts because of it.
I can't imagine how it must be to live with the constant trauma of "I'm in the middle of a war-zone" - changing platform in that situation, is surely even more difficult.

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

@waldschnecke

> By that standard they should get to other CEO's too.

Other CEOs of what kind of services?

Facebook, Instagram, Twitter? Yeah, probably there is some responsibility to consider for unencrypted social networks.

Signal? WhatsApp? Absolutely not, these are end-to-end encrypted internet messaging services, and the service providers have no access or control over the contents of conversations.

Telegram is a social network that pretends to be an encrypted IM.

Schneckbert 🐌

@rysiek That is exactly the question.
E2E encrypted can only be "out of the game" because nobody but the end parties know whats going on.
But "the governments" will only have a universal "apply cream to the whole body" answer to this.
#chatcontrol is a serious threat in europe - and this - what's now going on with Telegram is dangerous because of their stupid single answer.

Mia🏳️‍⚧️🌸(too hot for you)💋

@rysiek @waldschnecke

The question is also privacy against whom.

In Signal and Whatsapp you have the problem that your Phone number is known to anyone in a group chat, which is suuuuuuuper shit when you are a political activist because your phone number means that any police has your location and in germany you cannot even buy a phone number without your state ID.

So from a privacy standpoint Telegram is much much better then Signal, as long as Telegram does not work with the Authorities of your location.

The same is true if you date online, you absolutely do not want that these ppl get your phone number because this is much easier to abuse then some telegram username.

Also the privacy settings for telegram are _really_ good, you can decide who, even down to single persons, can see your pfp pic or a "public pfp" you can set - the same with online status etc.

I just whish telegram would encrypt messages by default end to end, really a shame that they do not, otherwise it would be the best thing out there.

@rysiek @waldschnecke

The question is also privacy against whom.

In Signal and Whatsapp you have the problem that your Phone number is known to anyone in a group chat, which is suuuuuuuper shit when you are a political activist because your phone number means that any police has your location and in germany you cannot even buy a phone number without your state ID.

Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦

@m @waldschnecke

> In Signal and Whatsapp you have the problem that your Phone number is known to anyone in a group chat

Not in Signal anymore. They finally solved it:
signal.org/blog/phone-number-p

But agreed on privacy controls etc.

Jeder :neocat_floof: :neocat_flag_agender:

@rysiek @waldschnecke it has been partially fixed at best. You still can see the phone number in app versions from before the update.

Schneckbert 🐌

@rysiek @m Yup. About time. Now they need to make sign-up possible without a number at all please

Mia🏳️‍⚧️🌸(too hot for you)💋

@waldschnecke @rysiek

As long as Signal does not cooperate with local officials this would be also okay when not (like telegram) - but they do.

Which means that your activist group can be anonymized with a search warrant against signal.

signal.org/bigbrother/santa-cl

Also Signal is again a central service and it is much better to do this error not again und bring up the next big entity that can screw us over.

Schneckbert 🐌

@m @rysiek True. A question of threat-model to an extend?
Decentralized E2E is probably always better (at least I can't think of why not).
But it doesn't have much exposure. Like Deltachat, Matrix (there might be an encryption or metadata problem with matrix? (Have not read it yet: soatok.blog/2024/08/14/securit) and others.

Mia🏳️‍⚧️🌸(too hot for you)💋

@waldschnecke @rysiek

I use Stickers and Gifs quite extensively and a lot of ppl i know do this too.
And from the idk 5 or so clients i used only one has a solution that works good, but it had a super high frustration hurdle.

ppl just do not care about E2E, they care if their emotion they have can be easily represented and how much fun it makes to write with friends ... all Matrix clients fail miserably at this.

Schneckbert 🐌

@m @rysiek True. Also the clients are sometimes horribly laggy and slow (looking at you iOS Element...) These days user-experience needs to be good, otherwise you can't really migrate anyone but your hardcore-nerd-friends over.

Mia🏳️‍⚧️🌸(too hot for you)💋

@waldschnecke @rysiek

Funnily enough this is also a reason why i don't use Discord that often.

It is just not acceptable nowadays to press enter and your messages only appears after 2 seconds... and your client has layout recalculation errors.

b1_66er

@rysiek @m @waldschnecke this is the reason I stayed with telegram after moving away from whatsapp and trying alternatives years ago.. I wasn't even able to really send videos and such on signal back then in addition to other functionality I considered essential for an IM app. telegram had it all and so i stayed. Turning on e2e manually is annoying but not a deal breaker. Having a half functioning app like signal was back then is one. Still I will try signal again since it seems to have improved a whole lot

Schneckbert 🐌

@b1_66er @rysiek @m It definitely did improve a lot over the past few years yea.

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