Gregory's Server@georgepenney Self checkout is one of our society's greatest failures. Every one of those machines deserves thirty seconds of sustained gunfire.
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53 comments
 @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney We had this in when we lived in the US and liked it. We have it at Pak n Save here and like it. It's so much better to have all of your shopping packed well rather than triple-handled and packed poorly! And much better than self checkouts because the stupid thing isn't always yelling at you to compensate for its own incompetence.  @libroraptor @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney had the self scanning guns in Switzerland in 2016, though I never used one  @libroraptor @Gustodon @georgepenney Not sure how this relates to packing. I don't have a problem with how my stuff is packed and I go to an independent supermarket that has promised to never have any kind of self checkout and never skimps on service staff and that's how I like it. @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney The relationship to packing is that most of us don't live anywhere near your local independent supermarket. What I like about the scan-it-yourself systems is that I can pack as I shop and there is no damage, and none of the bags collapse through poor stacking when I move them into the car or carry them on the bus. Occasionally there's a complication when the staff need to inspect but they're receptive when I ask them not to jumble things up. @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney Aside from that, we have some checkout operators who pack very brutally. Only good if you like crumbs and bruises. Then there are the ones who make unstable stacks that collapse as soon as the bag's moved, often with things like cornflakes and potato chips and delicate produce on one side for tins and bottles and frozen meat to fall onto. I just don't have the cognitive capacity to deal with that.  @libroraptor @anne_twain @georgepenney Respectfully, one of the functions of well-staffed, high quality grocery stores was to evolve a breed of baggers who were exceptionally good at packing groceries. I understand your desire to pack your own groceries but I'd like to assure you that there was a time when that was entirely unnecessary. @Gustodon @anne_twain @georgepenney I remember that time, too. That it once existed doesn't really make much difference to what I need in my shopping today. And if I can avoid having to engage with a human being at the checkout when I'm already exhausted from the shopping task, that's good for me, too. I usually go for a human checkout operate as better than the beeping, yelling self-checkout machine, though, even though it often means having to stop the packer so I can pack myself. @anne_twain And I'm happy that you have a good option! I'm actually quite happy going to shop during the quiet part of the morning, scanning and packing my own stuff, and leaving without interacting with anyone or The Machine. And adding a detour to the poultry farm where I'll talk with one person and get a good look at the eggs that I buy in trays of 36, and to the church where I pick up my weekly produce pack and, again, talk with exactly one person.  @Gustodon @libroraptor @anne_twain @georgepenney how serviced supermarket tills operate obviously varies between countries. I'm in the UK and quite ancient now and I can't recall ever not packing my own groceries, or in independent butchers or greengrocers for that matter. @marjolica @Gustodon @libroraptor @anne_twain @georgepenney  @marjolica @Gustodon @libroraptor @anne_twain @georgepenney I think "pack your own groceries" is not the main value. The main value is to pack the groceries once, not twice. It's a huge time waster to unpack the car onto the belt, scan everything, put everything onto a second belt, then into a bag, then back into the cart. I understand where you are coming from and am generally 100% on the same page as you but this system is just so much better that I hate shopping at a supermarket that doesn't have it.  @libroraptor @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney i guess there are cultures clashing here in some way. e.g. in most of europe everyone packs themselves, there is just the person who takes all the items off the conveyor belt scans them and places them behind the scanner for you to pack yourself. @glowl @libroraptor @Gustodon @georgepenney Yes, I think there's some variation. Having stuff packed for you is the norm in Australia. Customers bring their own re-usable bags too. But we do have Aldi where you have to pack your own. @anne_twain @glowl @Gustodon @georgepenney Writing the prices on everything with a shop-supplied marker pen – was a branding innovation in New Zealand in the 1980s, I think. The Write Price chain made their identity that way. They faded away. Now Pak-n-Save is about packing your own in bare-bones warehousing, a bit like Aldi. Woolworths is a mix, depending on who's on staff at what time of day and what mood they're in. New World and Fresh Choice are still full-service. @glowl @libroraptor @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney @JackEric @libroraptor @Gustodon @georgepenney They've deliberately made the normal checkouts slow by not having enough of them. They could make them faster but they don't want to hire more staff - they want you to use the self checkouts.  @anne_twain @libroraptor @Gustodon @georgepenney my experience of supermarkets that only have staffed checkouts is that they also don't have enough checkout staff and it takes forever to pay up and leave  @libroraptor, well… those chips will be fine. It's crisps that I'd worry about. @libroraptor @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney I shop for a family with food intolerances so its often a big shop. I supervise packing, often asking new staff if they've ever played Tetris (an online stacking game)? I request a 2nd trolley to avoid heavy bags getting stacked on top of lighter ones. I'm willing to longer to get packing and stacking done right. I'm sure it's a pain for staff but poor packing breaks food and creates waste. Satisfied customers come back and spend more money too. @Kay @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney I used to do that, too, but since my brain broke I haven't got the cognitive capacity to keep track of so much by the time I'm at the checkout. Just finding stuff on the shelves and dodging people in the aisles and trying to shut out the music and clattering trolleys is hard enough. I used to think that psych studies on how to coerce people by sensory occupation was just academic curiosity but these days I feel it very strongly. @libroraptor @Kay @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney @nddev @Kay @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney We're gradually getting those here, too, also at public libraries.  @libroraptor @nddev @Kay @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney as recently as 25 years ago, libraries *were* "quiet hours" in most places in the US. Then they started moving to "quiet rooms" and not particularly enforcing even that. Perhaps this does get more people in the library, though I'm not among them. These days I just checkout ebooks, or occasionally reserve something and go in and out as fast as possible. @oddhack @libroraptor @nddev @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney Wellington City Libraries (NZ) are civilized places and while mostly quietish, they're not silent. They also allow visitors to eat there although they request not smelly or messy food please. I've been known to spend hours at a library in between other engagements. Free Wifi, comfy furniture, restrooms, and if you have a packed lunch, food too. My local branch Te Awe has a cafe too. @nddev @libroraptor @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney Quiet time in supermarkets is in trial in some branches of Coles supermarkets in Australia and in one or two in Aotearoa New Zealand. It's unlikely to catch on in big chains unless legally required as research shows higher spending rates associated with certain beats of music. Possibly from disrupted thinking as suggested. Supermarkets are there to make their owners money not to benefit customers. FWIW I sometimes wear earplugs to cope @libroraptor @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney When I am in Sri Lanka, there is a man who packs the bags for shoppers, and another man to carry them to the car. Every task that is automated denies the dignity of paid work to another human being. @JMacfie @libroraptor @Gustodon @georgepenney And that's the primary reason I object to automated checkouts. I want people to have jobs.  @libroraptor @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney Haven't seen one for years. TukTuks, on the other hand, are everywhere. @libroraptor @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney ...and in SL there's an app called PickMe so you can hail a tuktuk via your mobile. @libroraptor @Gustodon @georgepenney I don't live near my supermarket either, but I'm willing to travel to go somewhere that treats people like people. @libroraptor @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney Yes, in the UK we've had self-scanning for many years, but I've never seen any UK supermarkets that bag your groceries for you. The other great thing about using the scanner is that you can pretend it's a 1960s Star Trek phaser. I mean, it's literally a ray-gun, right? @hengymrohebwlad, I've seen packers, but usually only when it's really busy. Quality of packing is variable. @hengymrohebwlad @libroraptor @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney When I worked at Sainsbury's twenty ish years ago, we were supposed to scan and pack, unless the customer asked to pack their own stuff. Some of my colleagues never got the hang of putting the heavy stuff at the bottom, rather than on top of the bread/eggs/other squishables :/ @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney we should all pick a day where we collect a pile of random items, scan them through then walk away without paying @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney Waitrose, in the UK ( which in every other aspect of its operation is exemplary, a partnership not a plc) has had those for years and years. I refused to use them.  @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney You can voluntarily use these in several UK supermarkets. At first they seemed like a real timesaver. Then after I'd scanned something, unscanned it when my OH put it back, re-scanned it, re-unscanned it, went further round then back to rescan it, then later unscanned it... I decided it wasn't such a great idea! @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney have you ever tried it? It's actually amazing. When you get an item, you scan it, and put it straight into your bag. It takes an extra 5 seconds per item, and when you're done the entire checkout process start to finish takes less than a minute. You don't have to unpack your trolley and then repack it into bags; you just swipe the scanner, pay, and walk right out of the store. It's so much faster and more convenient than waiting in line for a teller.  @anne_twain @Gustodon @georgepenney They have those over here, I tried them years ago. Everytime I got to the self checkout.. 'please wait for a staff member' who would come and inspect my shop... and always found something I'd missed. Not because I was trying to steal, but because the scanner didn't always register the item I offered up to it. After about the 3rd time of this happening... I never used one again. It's the bosses who decided to install them so they didn't have to pay real people that need sustained gunfire.  @Gustodon @georgepenney the failure is that we didn't protest loud enough (anyone remember when gas stations had service?). It used to be that all those self-* things were done by staff - now you do them, for free, and the corporation saves a buck while rising prices and giving the CEO a bonus for the ingenuity of it all.  @Gustodon @georgepenney I rely on them for autistic and anxiety reasons. They just need to have the mute function accessible to customers. @Gustodon @georgepenney  @Gustodon @georgepenney I absolutely love self-checkout, and I'm happy I don't have to have a tiring human interaction every time buy something. For a long time I couldn't understand why people hate them so, and I assumed they just like to have a personal servant taking care of them, even if just for a short moment. And then I went to UK, and tried self-checkout there, and oh my god. It was designed to show off every dark pattern possible. You don't hate machines, you hate their owners. |
@Gustodon @georgepenney One of Australia's supermarket giants, Woolworths, is trialling a system where a scanner is actually fixed to your trolley. 🙄 You have to collect the scanner first, using the company's RFID card.
I'm sure we'll all be rushing to do that.