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I know, I know, "security." This shows utter contempt for the user. I was just asked to authorize an app that I've used SINCE THE 1990s so it would continue working for a week. And next week I guess it'll ask again? You have to let the user say, somewhere, "never ask me again--always allow." 84 comments
 @jsnell Somehow even worse than contempt, it's ultimately ineffectual. You're re-creating UAC from Windows. Nicely done.  @raineer @jsnell this is worse than UAC. UAC just asks people if they are sure they want to run something with higher levels of privileges than their account currently has. So if they want to run something as admin, then UAC is required (with an optional password prompt depending on the environment). UAC is really no different to 'sudo <command>' then being prompted for your password. I use windows regularly and the only time I see UAC is ... 1/ "Asking for one week permissions is untenable and insulting” FB14689927 feel free to dupe  @jsnell If you’re filing feedback, you could also file one about how Apple keeps prompting to login to Feedback Assistant. @jsnell I’m also aggravated about the removal of the control key override for bypassing gatekeeper. The people they claim to protect don’t even know it exists.  @argentini @jsnell Maybe this is all to keep Apple Intelligence from getting *too* intelligent. 🤔 @jsnell FB14695544 filed and referenced yours, this is creating more harm in the long run than the anticipated "security" gain in the first place, notification fatique is a real thing. hopefully there will bem profiles/setting to set for at least corporate approved apps @jsnell it's also creating alert fatigue--it's not going to take long for users to just allow everything all the time. @sarahhbickerton @jsnell @aleen “That period”? Is right now. Both my employer and our client is requesting that I change password every three months…  @jsnell As if this won’t simply result in users approving EVERYTHING (but at least Apple gets to wipe their hands of the damage in this decision’s wake). 🙄  @jsnell 💯 spot on. Periodically prompting like location on iOS does? Sure. Weekly? GTFO. I’d hope there’ll be a way to disable that or script an auto-approve method. @jsnell My first reaction to seeing this news was, "Wow, Apple is really telling gamers where they stand (not that it's anything new) by making it extremely annoying to be a videogame streamer on an Apple OS." I know this hits a lot more than that, but that's just where my brain went first. @jsnell can’t they just add a “Pro” mode that doesn’t implement the annoyances intended for the ignorant? @jsnell This is anticompetitive behaviour from Apple (wrapped in the guise of being for “security” reasons). It will undoubtedly have the effect of “encouraging” customers to stop using some legit and useful 3rd party apps because they’re sick of constantly being nagged at. There should always be an “always allow for this app” option! @jsnell this will clearly be changed as policy it can’t possibly continue. I’m fine with it asking after updates or something but every week doesn’t make any sense.  @sageolson that's what I was thinking too. I have no interest in being harassed by my OS about the apps I've intentionally installed. If Apple forces the upgrade on my Mac Mini m2Pro, maybe I'll go to Debian Linux. We all know that social engineering happens. Adding more hoops for users to jump through won't stop social engineers from conning people into jumping through the hoops. But it will frustrate legitimate users. And something that’s really important - eg with phishing - is that users are our best defence - we need to encourage users to help, rather than acting like they’re obstacles. Imagine a security team of thousands of users, all of whom have the tools to engage rather than being frustrated?  @jsnell @dcrooks @9to5Mac it really sounds like you are not considering the case of intimate partner surveillance, which is what this sounds like a defense for to me. I am not sure this is the perfect solution to the problem, but “remind me never” is not tenable if an abuser might have physical access and your password at a point in time; it’s important to never give *anything* infinite silent background persistence. @dcrooks @jsnell @9to5Mac I don’t really disagree, this does seem like kind of an arbitrary cadence that probably privileges apple’s own products in dubious ways (do you have to re-enable FaceTime’s camera and screen recording access every week? I am guessing “no”) but still that is the sort of problem that needs to be reckoned with here They have really outstanding, experienced staff (which feels redundant to say) - agreed. @jsnell for what it’s worth this is why I qualified with “sounds like”. I did not mean to tell you that you don’t care about or don’t know about the issue, just that you didn’t mention it here, and given that (as far as I know) that is *the* problem being addressed by this sort of over-alerting, its absence is notable. Sorry that I implied otherwise. @jsnell CTRL/Right click > Open to allowlist an unsigned app is going away, too. At this point the Vista comparisons seem appropriate. @johnvoorhees @jsnell @9to5Mac or a menu bar organising app. I get prompted daily using Ice. 🫠  @johnvoorhees @jsnell @9to5Mac Agree completely - and I don't think Jason overstates it by saying it shows contempt. Having the option to always allow should be there, end of. @jsnell my guess is this stuff _decreases_ security as it trains people to agree to everything just to minimise the constant suffering. Dear lord... I've always wanted to like Macs, but could never get past how restrictive and controlling they can be. Imagine if Apple just released a version of their OS without any of this bullshit. It would be so popular.  @jsnell @techphotoguy @9to5Mac you say that, but how many times have you told iOS to “always allow” Apple’s own weather app location access, so it can, you know, give you the weather for your current location. “always allow” doesn’t mean “always” to Apple. @jsnell @9to5Mac just at some point, any point at all, the OS needs to assume that user is not a complete moron. Or at the very least, assume it's a “person picks a spouse you don't like” argument. You're allowed to ask once “are you sure?" After that don't be surprised if you don't get invited over any more. @jsnell @9to5Mac Please tell me it’s not the full screen recording loop of grant permissions and restart the app. But, yes, Apple needs to empower user, not make them paranoid and stressed. Was it Vista when Microsoft went crazy with security pop up’s and we learned that if overdone people just approve without comprehending? Remember at some old WWDC they used to poke fun at windows for security confirmation dialogues? 😂   @jsnell @9to5Mac This is particularly upsetting because they have a good model for this on iOS. For apps with full location access every (few months?) it pops up a dialog that says something like “hey…just a reminder that this app knows everywhere you go... just confirming you still want that”. That's way better than a blanket nag every week, and Apple invented it! I too prefer a “always allow" button but I’ll take a reminder every few months. @jsnell oh no. I don’t think people realize how many 3rd-party apps use screen recording permissions: most menu bar utilities (Bartender, etc), CleanShot, OBS, Kap, Screen Studio, Sim Daltonism ( color blind test), and the list goes on. As a content creator and designer… sigh… this is a terrible user experience.  @jsnell so, I don't use Macs, and I am pretty much an outside observer. To be honest this (admittedly strange) solution makes me wonder, what the heck are they responding to? Have there been some particularly horrific crimes? Theft of plain people's money? Or has this led to hacks of Apple itself! Maybe if the crimes were bad enough the heavy hammer is justified. @jsnell Maybe I should add my general expectation. It is that normal users will not be using general computer systems much into the future. General computer systems require educated and responsible administration. We've kind of faked that as a society since the dawn of the PC, but we are living on borrowed time. iOS, Android, even Chromebook, are nice because they are NOT general computing environments.  @jsnell @nicklockwood @9to5Mac personally, I agree but there are problems like spyware which get nasty (did “you” approve it or was that your abusive spouse when you used the bathroom?) which makes me wish they had put the effort into visibility so there isn’t a way to capture the screen without user awareness. |
Gregory's Server
Why "utter contempt?" It's saying that, even if I know for a fact that I want to give a particular app permission, macOS will treat me a like a child and keep asking me. Because Apple doesn't believe I am qualified to grant permanent permission to any app.
Another sign that the people in charge of security and privacy features at Apple are out of control and that nobody who stands up for user experience is being heard.