 Anyone who says Linux is difficult to use, annoying, or requires a lot of user time and input to work needs to watch the latest video from @snazzyq. Just seeing the amount of pop-ups, updates, issues, and hoops you need to jump through to use a new Windows PC is insane (granted, some issues in the video are because it’s an ARM PC, but most of the annoying interactions aren’t dependent on that). As Quinn says, it’s likely faster to install Arch than to setup a new Windows PC… 93 comments
  @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq but i have lately install new windows VM and fighting against all windows crap (all default opt-ins, bloatware, user tracking...) took me about 6 or 7 hours.  @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq Link: Mac Fanboy Tries ARM Windows Laptops / Testing the Lenovo Yoga against Apple's Macbook Air M2 @thelinuxEXP every time I have to set up a windows machine at the office it takes me at least a day in total. I‘m never going back to windows without being forced.  @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq @bdiederik @snazzyq Yeah, that’s my experience as well. Buy a computer with Linux preinstalled, and give it to someone who has very limited experience with computers. Then give them a new Windows PC, and watch them clamour for their previous computer. @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq the big difference is that on windows, people is get used to that annoying stuff, when they switch to linux they need to learn/know what are they doing. @eickot The other difference is that people buy PCs with Windows installed, whereas they have to install Linux themselves on hardware that might not support it well. @thelinuxEXP I was going to include that too, but I thought the annoying part is not in the install in windows, but in the booting. But of course, there is no computer in any MediaMarkt, Fnac (or your prefered electronic shop) that comes with Linux. @eickot @thelinuxEXP @thefwguy @thelinuxEXP I didn't said companyies, I said electronics shop. Companies today there is a good chunk. @eickot @thelinuxEXP Ah my bad :) @thefwguy @thelinuxEXP yes, and I'm pretty sure that the average user buys it on electronic shop. @PlutoisAPlanet There has to be at least a few IT people who set up the computers that Microsoft employees use. These people probably last 2 weeks before they resign 😂 @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq probably faster to do a stage 2 gentoo build! hehe Windows 10/11 really does take the mickey. Having just made the switch, I find Ubuntu very easy. My only complaint is that it's not easy to make a shortcut to a program with dependencies in its folder. But that is a tiny thing. @Lane Why do you need to shortcut a program? Most (if not all) Linux desktops run with .desktop files which call the program.   @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq people who complain about Linux are either seeking comfort in recognition (understandable), or are people who do not like excitement and throw a "you have to use command line" argument and feel very clever. @peteriskrisjanis @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq Also CMD on Windows is way worse than any other shell  @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq I do work for a museum preparing Windows computers to live in exhibits and I spend over an hour each time uninstalling things and disabling services and processes so nothing ever appears on screen that shouldn't. I also completely disable all updates since the computers will never go online. Its a PITA but it pays well. @rasterweb @snazzyq I do hope it pays well, sounds like my own personal nightmare 😅 @rasterweb @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq C'm on, there is nothing like a good old useless and annoying popup. That is the legacy. Should that horror be erased for future encounters?  @thelinuxEXP  @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq I set up an old laptop with Linux while my workstation was updating Windows a few years ago. I was done with the xfce theming etc before the windows update was halfway through. It was around then that I made the decision to switch completely. @thelinuxEXP I've been a user of both Windows and Linux since Windows 3.1 and Red Hat 5, and while it absolutely used to be the case that Linux was harder to get to grips with if you don't already know what you're doing, it just isn't true any more, and hasn't been for several years. Distros like Mint, Zorin, Pop! and so on are incredibly slick, and Windows has become such a messy, saggy, nagging royal pain in the fundament, that if anything the reverse is now the case.  @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq You got me hooked up on the video until the moment this guy showed on a laptop screen both a cybertruck and a picture of tRump. He could've might as well showed a swastika for similar results! @johnmastodon @snazzyq Pretty sure these were the automatic Windows News articles 😂 @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq 😆 I mean, they could've edited the video, it was clearly on purpose showing both images  @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq having perfected my own OOBE offline setup dance I agree. I think the most egregious thing is launching Edge for the first time. You have to dodge sign in prompts and data-collection opt-ins like Neo in the Matrix. And not to get too off-topic but if you are looking for a good Windows 11 de-crapifier script I have had great luck with Win11Debloat from Raphire on Github.  @thelinuxEXP Imagine, everyone buying a new device would receive it barebone with an USB install media in the box, and be required to install their operating system themselves 🤭 @9Lukas5 That would pour the myth of “windows is easy” to pasture, quick. @thelinuxEXP Ugh yeah, ran into that last time as well 🙄 Prepared an install drive on my linux machine to get my sisters new PC setup and didn't even think that this could be as tricky. @bobthebuster If you’re talking about me, I’m not belittling anyone at all, as is pretty obvious from my post. If you’re taking about Quinn, he’s actually a Mac Stan, not a Linux Stan at all. So, in both cases, you’re wrong :) @bobthebuster @thelinuxEXP You'll say that it "doesn't help" but Nick's post isn't even to help someone but as a comment on how bad setting up a Windows system is. And yes, @snazzyq is right: You could even manually install Arch Linux faster then setting up a Windows system. @gelbphoenix @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq it's disingenuous to make these statements. All are easy to setup, now that Linux has gotten more user-friendly. Throwing shade on people who use windows isn't helping to convert people to Linux. The stans won't see it as they are too deep, just like apple fan boys. It's a tool. Use whatever, but don't make fun or shame people for their choice. Coming from a daily user of all 3. @bobthebuster @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq That Video and that posts isn't "throwing shade" on people and making of what someone uses for an OS but a critique of the setup process of Windows. Coming from a person who used most of the systems in many points of their life. @bobthebuster @gelbphoenix @snazzyq Again, no one has thrown any shade at any user at all. Re-read the post. I’m not mentioning windows users, or criticizing them. @thelinuxEXP @gelbphoenix @snazzyq throwing shade at people that have complained about Linux. It is a pain to use at times, just like windows and Mac. To bring people in use positive language, not negative tones. Same silly arguments for years, it's a tool use what works best and empower people in a positive way. @bobthebuster @gelbphoenix @snazzyq You’re really trying to read something that isn’t part of my post, here. I didn’t say that, didn’t mean that, and the tone isn’t negative either. It’s encouraging people to refresh their opinions with recent experiences. Like somebody should e.g. regularly look at other systems and make their own opinion about these systems. For example: I can't say if Mac is bad or not because I didn't had a chance at testing MacOS handson at this time in my life. @bobthebuster The video isn’t snarky in any way, and what I wrote isn’t belittling or criticizing anyone. @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq Re-installing Windows from scratch, via the BIOS or an ISO, is worse. Using an ISO and finding out the wifi/ ethernet/storage drivers aren't included is an extra thrill. @Corb_The_Lesser @snazzyq Oh yeah, the amount of installs I had to restart because “a driver disk is missing” because I used the wrong USB port, or didn’t try to install using legacy mode or whatever other nonsense… @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq I’m Apple ecosystem first but Linux curious (trying to get airplay on a record player and as what got me playing with raspberry pi’s). Is there a Linux distro that has stable android app support? I’ve had trouble getting Anbox working on my Pi’s. I just need a few mainstream apps that are elusive on Linux @MurphysLawKY Maybe try Waydroid. Yes it is Wayland only but Wayland will be the standard none the less. @gelbphoenix I’ll give it a try. Full android integration with Linux would be a huge gap filler for greater Linux adoption. @MurphysLawKY Maybe... But it will be hard regarding that even Microsoft had to shut down their advertised Windows Subsystem for Android. @gelbphoenix for what it’s worth android forked off of Linux so there’s some compatibility there. @MurphysLawKY Not really... Yes the Android Kernel is based on the Linux LTS kernel versions but these forks have been patched to include the java based Android runtime and other Android relevant patches. @MurphysLawKY I don't know... Giving the fact that even ChromeOS moves away from their Linux base to a system with the Android kernel (with that also discontinueing ChromeOS Flex) I don't see anybody really moving or creating a stable or in a way relevant distro with a serious Android integration. @thelinuxEXP Since then Windows at most in a VM.   @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq The last time I bought a Windows PC I went through the full setup, in order to archive it, before wiping it and installing Linux. Yep. The awfulness of the Windows setup process reinforced the whole plan.  @thelinuxEXP Yeah I installed a Windows dual boot on my old MacBook Air a bit ago to try some windows-only software and the installation experience is horrific, also drivers I forgot are a thing for even common devices like audio interfaces or input devices. Nothing works out of the box. Updates are a mess. The only way they have market dominance still is because of app exclusivity and OEM partnerships  @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq The pre-installed Windows 11 on my sister's laptop (she needs Windows) didn't even come with drivers for the built-in WiFi card. Did Windows say anything? No. Everything was fine under Fedora oob. @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq Pretty much any Linux install is faster than a Windows Install at this point. And if you're including what it takes to make a Local Account in Windows as well as post-install de-bloating, It's not even close. Windows is difficult too, even Android is for Senior Citizens, younger people teach them to use it and when they learn the biggest corporation change the damn layout of apps and operating system. Nothing is easy, just have to keep learning it. I moved to Ubuntu after taking 2 hours just to undo all the unwanted changes a Windows update made or tried to make to my system. The many little changes to not put my default folders on OneDrive were the worst. Never had to do more than click "update now", since then. @thelinuxEXP Windows can be tamed; but if you have what it takes to tame it, you have what it takes to thrive in Linux. 💁🏻♀️ @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq Hahahaha I saw that video! 😂 That being said, I don't think Apple is much better with Gatekeeper. I have used @EndeavourOS since 2020 (since 2021 as my primary OS) and I can safely say it makes Windows look difficult. I can literally just type "yay" into the terminal and update every system package I have, including KDE Plasma, and then type "flatpak update" to update the graphical apps I use. And don't get me starter on KDE Discover vs downloading totallynotarootkit.exe @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq Funny thing is, that its actually faster to install arch then deal with setting up new windows pc. Thankfully archinstall is a thing so if we disregard people dont like it we can argue its actually faster, and if we incorporate linux mint in the race linux wins by a mile.  @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq I should make a video showing how difficult it is to share a USB drive onto the local network from Windows vs Linux. In Windows, I right-click the folder and I’m done. In Linux, I must open the terminal and permanently re-map the drive and then install Samba (again only via terminal), set up user groups (and avoid accidentally locking myself out of the root group, which did happen to me), set permissions and then I can share. Sorry, but Linux is diffcult to use and requires A LOT of time! 🥵 @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq Windows is best experienced using WINE, Bottles or Game Porting Toolkit @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq So Linux IS difficult to use, annoying, or requires a lot of user time and input to work... just not as much as a recent Windows? Pretty poor argument there sorry to say... @ZoidbergForPresident @snazzyq That’s an incredibly biased and weird way to look at this issue. @ZoidbergForPresident Ah, that’s where you go back to being wrong. You were so close, but I’m sure at some point you’ll be able to read something and not automatically decide from it the meaning you’d like to see, instead of the meaning that the words convey. It’s a skill some people never achieve, I wish you the best of luck on your learning journey :) @thelinuxEXP @ZoidbergForPresident @bebs @thelinuxEXP Taper sur Windows qui devient de plus en plus merdatoire, ok, mais contre-comparer ça à Linux, bof. :P @ZoidbergForPresident @thelinuxEXP  @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq Well, key to offering a great user experience is 1) Tight hardware & software integration 2) Well-planned, solid OS foundation 1: Microsoft makes the OS, Qualcomm cooperates with Microsoft to optimise that OS for Qualcomm’s next-gen aarch64-based SoCs. It’s not ideal, less control, but (open source!) Android pulled it off and Windows can, too. 2: Why Windows is ready for ARM: Microsoft’s earlier big efforts with Win10 ”Core OS”, WP8/WM10 and WinRT. @thelinuxEXP @snazzyq As someone who began his personal-computer explorations on Windows 3.10 and MSDOS (and a tiny bit of MacOS 7.6 or 8.0), I know Windows is a behemoth, with layers upon layers of compatibility and only very little beard trimmed. This makes the software offering attractive, but just like the 40-year old X11 server, there comes a point when it’s time to rethink your future. Personally I enjoyed the Win10X virtualisation strategy, but that got scrapped. @thelinuxEXP@mastodon.social @snazzyq@mas.to arch install speedrun when (actually that probably already exists) |
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