Email or username:

Password:

Forgot your password?
Simon's posts Post Back to profile
Simon Phipps

Switzerland passes law requiring #OpenSource software in the public sector. "All public bodies must disclose the source code of software developed by or for them, unless precluded by third-party rights or security concerns" Well done @maemst, great work!

joinup.ec.europa.eu/collection

1 July at 14:17 | Open on meshed.cloud
41 comments
Edvin Malinovskis

@webmink @maemst lets hope that the "third-party rights or security concerns" doesn't end up doing the heavy lifting 🤞

1 July at 14:30 | Open on fd00.space
Marty Fouts

@nCrazed @webmink @maemst In the 80s we introduced a policy at NASA similar to this law and unfortunately that’s what happened. Unless there are strong incentives to select OSS these laws will make little difference.

1 July at 14:47 | Open on mastodon.online
Apicultor 🐝

@nCrazed @webmink @maemst Dropped into this thread to find this and it was the very first reply.

This is a loophole so huge you could drive a dump truck through it.

My Champagne, alas, will stay in the fridge for now.

1 July at 15:02 | Open on hachyderm.io
Dr. HermanSJr.

@nCrazed @webmink @maemst

It's a given for all such shit entities with a façade of being "for the people"; yet the planet is too dumb to awaken to such and change systems for the better.

1 July at 15:36 | Open on mastodon.social
Scott Jenson

@webmink @maemst This is fantastic news. Especially as it will hopefully motivate projects to design for a much broader, more inclusive audience, not just tech heavy users that want to 'scratch their own itch'

1 July at 14:32 | Open on social.coop
Simon Phipps

@scottjenson The authorisation of provision of services to other public bodies in Article 4 is also huge. It allows the building of collectively-managed services and membership of open source foundations, unless I am mistaken.

/cc @maemst

1 July at 14:41 | Open on meshed.cloud
Mina

@webmink @maemst really hope that the "security concerns" will be subject to experts…

1 July at 14:48 | Open on cathode.church
SuperDicq

@webmink@meshed.cloud @maemst@swiss.social While a step in the right direction I'm worried about the unless "precluded by third-party rights or security concerns".

I would much rather see to disallow the use of software by third parties who are not willing to give their users freedom.

Also there is never a single valid security concern for not releasing your software as free software. Security and freedom are completely separated concerns. With free software it is much easier for security researchers to do their job, so keeping software secret is the real security concern.

@webmink@meshed.cloud @maemst@swiss.social While a step in the right direction I'm worried about the unless "precluded by third-party rights or security concerns".

I would much rather see to disallow the use of software by third parties who are not willing to give their users freedom.

Also there is never a single valid security concern for not releasing your software as free software. Security and freedom are completely separated concerns. With free software it is much easier for security researchers...

1 July at 14:59 | Open on minidisc.tokyo
Karl Heinz Häsliprinz

@webmink lol it's all produced by third parties.

1 July at 15:25 | Open on climatejustice.social
Erik Uden ⁂🥥🌴🍑
Sebastian Lasse

@ErikUden @webmink
just btw:
Germany is the country who asked wikidata, us and others how much we need.
Then before elections they promised "60mio. for Open Source".
Then a honk of a 4% party got our financial minister and ruled out all the others and in the end we got 3.5 …
Anyway HOPE!

1 July at 15:38 | Open on digitalcourage.social
Erik Uden ⁂🥥🌴🍑

@sl007 I will personally cause the annihilation of the FDP :AntiLindnerAktion: :Lindner:

1 July at 15:55 | Open on mastodon.de
Pierre Pezziardi

@ErikUden @webmink I'm afraid it is not as powerful a law. The "unless protected" opens wide doors to closed software

7 July at 11:16 | Open on amicale.net
BioSchweiz

@webmink @maemst I believe it when I see it. Public schools are all on the microsoft universe.

1 July at 15:31 | Open on troet.cafe
Yvan DS 🗺️ :ferris: :go:

@BioSchweiz @webmink @maemst
Yes, I agree.
However, those are not software developed for them and that's why it's a "loophole".

I would prefer if we aimed Open first rather than closed first too.. But here we are.
Plus most of our blue collars are stuck on .NET 3.5 and Java 4 era.. Hopefully this will show to everyone how bad the situation is on the custom software side and at least we will get something better on that front.

But I won't hold my horses... It's going to take ages for that.

@BioSchweiz @webmink @maemst
Yes, I agree.
However, those are not software developed for them and that's why it's a "loophole".

I would prefer if we aimed Open first rather than closed first too.. But here we are.
Plus most of our blue collars are stuck on .NET 3.5 and Java 4 era.. Hopefully this will show to everyone how bad the situation is on the custom software side and at least we will get something better on that front.

1 July at 15:47 | Open on hachyderm.io
Cluster Fcku

@BioSchweiz @webmink @maemst from reading the german language link (2 clicks in) this is about digital sustainability: an application that is developed for a government agency (city, federal etc...) must be OSS so that it can be reused, maintained, repaired and improved (by the govn) without license restrictions. OGD (data) is also open, except if personal data. But purchased MS software is not bespoke. Maintenance, upgrades, and longevity are provided by the supplier.

1 July at 16:54 | Open on mastodon.social
dragotin
mikebrunt Foodscaping CO
Gilgwath

@webmink @maemst Not sure if really want to read that code 😱☠️ Aside from that, let's hope this doesn't remain a papiertiger 🙂

1 July at 15:58 | Open on social.tchncs.de
Pentropy

@webmink @maemst the problem will be "third-party rights or security concerns" which is basically applicable in nearly all cases. that's the usual reason for denying FOIA requests, that's why you have trouble to see your *full* medical files, that's why you can't repair your car, get the phone number of a certain clerk at a gov office, that's why you can't trace decision making over your application at authorities.

might be a step forward but the implementation of the law will decide if it's actually a step or a joke.

@webmink @maemst the problem will be "third-party rights or security concerns" which is basically applicable in nearly all cases. that's the usual reason for denying FOIA requests, that's why you have trouble to see your *full* medical files, that's why you can't repair your car, get the phone number of a certain clerk at a gov office, that's why you can't trace decision making over your application at authorities.

1 July at 16:15 | Open on lazysocial.de
Matthias Stürmer

@Pentropy @webmink I really think they're executing the law seriously from what I can say after half a year. Some more background information was presented at FOSDEM 2024: fosdem.org/2024/schedule/event

1 July at 17:01 | Open on swiss.social
Simon Phipps

@maemst
My instinct is it removes barriers for those who want to create interoperable solutions collaboratively, rather than forcing those who want to enrich foreign corporations not to do so. Mandates have not been very successful anywhere; enabling acts sound much more useful as long as the will is there.

@Pentropy

1 July at 17:07 | Open on meshed.cloud
Alexander Schoch

@webmink @maemst wait, when did this happen? Was it not passed last year?

1 July at 16:55 | Open on linuxrocks.online
Matthias Stürmer

@alexander_schoch @webmink Yes, the law was passed in 2023, but it was enforced on 1 January 2024.

1 July at 16:58 | Open on swiss.social
Alexander Schoch

@maemst @webmink Damn, that's really cool. I've been advocating for "public money, public code" at thealternative.ch for years now, and I didn't hear about this **for a full year**.

1 July at 17:02 | Open on linuxrocks.online
Martin Clausen

@webmink @maemst This law does de facto not require anything. It does not obligate any public body to ensure that the source code of software developed for or by them may be disclosed. It does not even obligate them to preference such software. All it does is instruct them to disclose if nothing prevents it. Weak sauce.

1 July at 18:34 | Open on mstdn.io
Simon Phipps
Martin Clausen

@webmink @maemst Was it not possible to require the use of Open Source prior?

1 July at 21:05 | Open on mstdn.io
PhreakByte

@webmink @maemst This sentence could very likely break the intention of that legislation

“unless precluded by third-party rights or security concerns”

1 July at 22:18 | Open on infosec.exchange
tyil

@webmink@meshed.cloud @maemst@swiss.social

Unless
This generally means everyone is just going to say "well we can't release it due to security concerns" and nothing will change. I hope Switzerland will not have this issue and will truly embrace #OpenSource, or better yet, #FreeSoftware, and encourage more European countries to do so quickly.

2 July at 5:07 | Open on fedi.tyil.nl
milkposter
Echedelle ⚧

@webmink@meshed.cloud @maemst@swiss.social let's hope they fulfil

In several south american countries this is also by law, yet you can see universities deploying things in background that use proprietary software and they just don't tell about it. You notice it because you are inside x3

2 July at 13:30 | Open on fearness.org
Sven Slootweg

@webmink @maemst Hm. Would "vendor copyright" not constitute a "third-party right"? That seems like it could be a rather large loophole.

2 July at 13:44 | Open on social.pixie.town
Kevin Karhan :verified:

@maemst @webmink sadly only for #custom-made solutions made with #PublicMiney.

They don't ban procurement or use of #COTS solutions that are #CCSS and not #FLOSS...

4 July at 9:21 | Open on infosec.space
Saxnot

@webmink @maemst security concerns? What a bogus reasoning. That's security by obscurity. In othet words: no security at all.

Seems like a loophole everybody will abuse endlessly

6 July at 21:05 | Open on chaos.social
LorenaABarba

@webmink @maemst — Could someone in-the-know help me understand if "public money, public code" also applies to investigators receiving public funds in the form of research grants?

9 July at 17:59 | Open on fosstodon.org
Olivier Mengué
Go Up