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Top-level
 As long as Linux users think they are "normal users", there will be little progress made in Linux's journey to become mainstream The terminal being the only way to do most stuff is a massive failure on the part of Linux, not a strength. And Linux users / distro maintainers have to realize that. The average person will never open the Terminal; the moment someone even suggest that, they'll go "This is too difficult and a waste of time. Why isn't there an app for this?" (2/2) 37 comments
 @davidbures ofc you could also go the third way: start contributing to a better solution. @funbaker @davidbures this is just not productive. Devs need user input, & the only response cannot be "you should contribute then if you don't like it." Think about what you just said. "If you are a typical computer user & don't want to use a command line, THEN CONTRIBUTE TO DEVELOPING SOFTWARE YOU'D RATHER USE." People who don't want to use a command line WON'T be developing software!!!!!! So yes, you are PUSHING users into getting spied on by belittling their needs. @itsmeholland As a Mac GUI Dev he would be cleary capable of doing that. But all he did and does was to insult linux users. @itsmeholland I'm not a GUI Dev at all. I'm a Sysadmin and able to deal with Problems around Linux. Unfortunately I was not able to find a single question under the OP. @funbaker@chaos.social you're either not seeing the big picture or your choosing not to so I'll spell it out. This isn't about HIS SPECIFIC "question," or anyones specific question, to you or anyone in particular. This is about the TENDENCY of Linux people to respond obnoxiously to ANY beginner questions (or in your case, the IDEA of any beginner question) with hostility & pedantry. That's literally what OP was about, & all it was about. & thats what almost all the comments have been about. @itsmeholland yeah. no. this particular case was different. ask me any beginner question. but don't expect a timeframe or smth like that to answer. @funbaker the point about the terminal was not even directed at you, not sure why you're making your status as "not a GUI dev" a thing when it's not relevant at all. No one actually asked you in particlar anything, but you still needed to chime in to tell HYPOTHETICAL/unnamed/not present people who have an issue using CLI to go fuck themselves & become a dev if they want a GUI for everything so badly. This is literally what people are complaining about on this post lmao. @funbaker@chaos.social & no, no one is "insulting" Linux users, unless you take "not your average computer user" as an insult somehow which you seem determined to do. Using the command line automatically elevates you to somewhere above average among the general computer-using population. That's a fact. Not everyone wants or needs to be "somewhere above average" while also having a modicum of privacy & that should be fine. For some reason in the linux community it's often not & you're kind of proving it. 🤷  @funbaker @davidbures attitudes like this are why people don't want to learn to use Linux. You have to meet people where they are. @lori I'm not gonna lie: you won't have 1:1 experience like with windows. @lori so you are not even having issues with it then. you know what I see in this whole thread? culture shocks. lots of them. FOR ME it looks like people can't handle the freedom given by linux. @funbaker Or maybe you just can't imagine dealing with anyone that isn't like yourself. Because I'm talking as someone who has introduced other people to Linux and you are talking as someone only thinking about your own use of it, and that's not what this thread was about in the first place. I have a computer science degree, I want to get people into Linux who don't. @lori much appreciate and good luck with that. but my issue was with the subpost here which calls linux users "not normal". I have a problem with that. @lori and then image me being swarmed by people full of vanity. @lori and you see no problem with people being called "not normal" either? @lori that alone may be something to be discussed, but this is not the issue here. @lori so you choose to ignore the issue of people getting called "not normal". I'm not sure if that doesn't make you part of the problem, frankly said.  @funbaker @lori Hey so, I need you to take a second and just listen. My dad is not a tech savvy person. I have to walk him through how to find the file menu on his browser just to clear his history now and again and leave written instructions on how to do things like print and basic stuff on his desktop. My sibling works in a library and that's pretty standard for the folks coming in too. I'm a millenial and many of my classmates did not know how to operate computers at all either. /1 Mainly cos computer typing classes were phasing out, and people were mostly using phones and tablets because computers are too expensive for a large chunk of the population. So when folks get a computer, using anything that's not gui based, much less requires attempting to find documentation is too far out of their reach and understanding. I understand you getting mad at folks being called "not normal" but as a linux user who can understand and use terminal, that sets you /2 Apart from a large chunk of the population who doesn't have that sort of tech literacy or understanding and absolutely needs a solid gui interface in order to get the most out of their os. These people are looking for an os as a daily driver, not for any sort of specific use case. I installed Mint on my old laptop for my dad and it worked for him for years once I set it up because he could understand it and it was familiar. But he could not use terminal to save his life. There are a lot of non tech savvy folks that could really benefit from linux and enjoy it, but the rest of the community has a habit of focusing on the small things or things that seem sort of common sense or simple to the rest of us who have tech literacy. This is the problem, we can see it playing out here in the replies to the og post too. Its easy to let our tempers get the better of us or brush off stuff as inane, but tbh everyone's gotta start somewhere right? @GarbageGlitch @lori In Driving School, I was unsure about how to do certain things. Did I call my instructor "not normal" for it? certainly not, it would been an F otherwise. Everyone likes car comparisons, right? As I said, I understand why you're upset about that, it's fair, but you continuing to ignore the original discussion and points, and instead focusing on wording you take issue with specifically is illustrating some of the exact problems we're discussing, and is not contributing positively to the conversation. I think you need to step back for a second and come back later, it seems this hit a personal nerve for you. @GarbageGlitch @funbaker @lori yes to this! Mint feels like windows and is super stable, the installer is easy and painless. Hardware support is excellent (wifi cards, Bluetooth, graphics, etc) I recommend it to Linux newbies all the time. @funbaker @davidbures Oh for Pete’s sake. Literally the attitude that you were being asked to drop. @funbaker @davidbures is it possible that this dismissive attitude is part of the reason the year of non-Linux users caring about switching? |
Gregory's Server
@davidbures strong words, but nothing behind. I'm happy to help, but if you don't want: be happy to be spied on and your data sold to whomever