Gregory's Server@jesusmargar Joseph Campbell spent most of his life showing that all human stories are really the same. Dune and Star Wars ARE the same story, two of countless versions of The Hero's Journey. So are Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings, the latter more proudly affirming its roots. Like Campbell, Tolkien understood all this. Lucas really didn't, but he did know that he was rehashing old human stories. Most of Star Wars is a sci-fi remake of The Hidden Fortress, which also wasn't wholly original.
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 @wesdym @jesusmargar Star Wars also took a lot of little details from Valerian and Laureline:  @wesdym @jesusmargar The major problem with that thesis is that - unlike Luke Skywalker - Paul Atreides is very much not a hero. Kind of the point of the first few books: despite his best efforts he still ends up being a genocidal monster with the blood of billions on his hands, and infinitely worse than the Emperors and Harkonnens that preceded him. He is only a hero in the sense that he can see this outcome and tries to prevent it happening. Yet fails miserably.  @JonnyT @wesdym A spoiler is an element of a disseminated summary or description of a media narrative that reveals significant plot elements, with the implication that the experience of discovering the plot naturally, as the creator intended it, has been robbed of its full effect. Typically, the conclusion of a plot, including the climax and ending, is regarded as highly susceptible to spoilers. Plot twists are also prone to spoilers. Any narrative medium can produce spoilers, althou  @JonnyT @wesdym @jesusmargar Must ponder. I think I would argue that they are different types of heroes from different genres. Luke is a Buster Crabbe Saturday morning serial hero. Paul is a deeply literary hero. There's really no fit comparing, and the new Dune movie doesn't really move Paul into Luke's vapid and superficial contextual criteria. Too, Luke wouldn't exist without Paul. It's utter ignorance to try to put them on the same scale, like judging Richard III against Deadpool.  @wesdym @jesusmargar Joseph Campbell is an absolute racist, sexist hack and his bullshit "hero's journey/monomyth" only applies to one specific form of white, colonial storytelling https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2020/12/31/the-heros-journey-is-nonsense/ https://freerange.com/blog/joseph-campbell-history-and-antisemitism-critiquing-the-heros-journey @wesdym @jesusmargar The Idea Campbell showed "all human stories are the same" does not bear close examination. |
@wesdym there are stories with collective protagonists that are not like this. E.g. Cela's La Colmena and, to a lower extent, GoT or The Wire.