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Dan Goodin

@ianrosewrites

I dunno. I see neighbors spray 20 gallons of pristine water 2x a week to clean their driveway. I see passers by toss their plastic water bottle into the sewer. I see people keeping their car running for 45 minutes while they sleep or talk on the phone because they can't brave the 55 degree temperature. I see people spending 1+ hour driving their SUV to the MLB game when they could get there in 25 minutes by taking public transit. I see all of this and much more and realize that millions of other individuals around the world are doing the same. These folks feel no sense of responsibility. They feel entitled. They justify this by saying corporations do worse. What you're saying is precisely what these folks want to hear.

cc: @chu

22 April at 15:46 | Wall-to-wall | Open on infosec.exchange
42 comments
T Chu 朱

@dangoodin @ianrosewrites

Also true. I live in a decent bubble and forget these people exist.

We walk everywhere, have farmers markets and co-ops that people shop at.

There is definitely a lot that individuals could do... it still pales in comparison to what governments can do though. If they did nothing but bring oil subsidies to 0 it would already be more than all the Earth day activities put together.

22 April at 15:50 | Open on climatejustice.social
Dan Goodin

@chu @ianrosewrites

"Definitely a lot" understates the contribution individuals could make. Personal consumption represents 67+% of the US GDP. If everyone who ate meat simply cut their meat consumption in half, that'd be HUGE. If even 50% of individuals stopped drinking water out of plastic, that'd be HUGE. If people cut the number of air miles they traveled by 25% that'd be huge. It's important individuals be educated about their contribution to climate disaster and feel the imperative to act accordingly. They most definitely shouldn't be given a free pass simply because there are worse offenders.

@chu @ianrosewrites

"Definitely a lot" understates the contribution individuals could make. Personal consumption represents 67+% of the US GDP. If everyone who ate meat simply cut their meat consumption in half, that'd be HUGE. If even 50% of individuals stopped drinking water out of plastic, that'd be HUGE. If people cut the number of air miles they traveled by 25% that'd be huge. It's important individuals be educated about their contribution to climate disaster and feel the imperative to act accordingly....

22 April at 16:02 | Open on infosec.exchange
T Chu 朱

@dangoodin @ianrosewrites

Good point.

I honestly forget how the other side lives sometimes. Visiting friends and family outside of my downtown bubble often causes me great distress.

When I visit my cousin in the suburbs of Ottawa, the plastic they throw out during our week long visit is about what we would go through in 6months plus.

I often have to stop thinking about this because of the immense stress it causes me and I completely forget that people live like this.

22 April at 16:06 | Open on climatejustice.social
Dan Goodin

@chu @ianrosewrites

Yeah, I'm sometimes reduced to tears seeing the amount of plastic spilling out of trash receptacles on trash day. Sometimes it feels so hopeless.

22 April at 16:10 | Open on infosec.exchange
sidereal

@dangoodin @chu @ianrosewrites Well… the good news is that the whole point of this thread is that the trash you see is a tiny percentage of the plastic waste you don’t see, most of which is produced by industrial processes and distribution, not individual consumers.

Their propaganda seems to have worked on you.

22 April at 16:55 | Open on kolektiva.social
sidereal

@dangoodin @chu @ianrosewrites Let me attempt to put this a other way.

It is impossible for me to care very much about the consumption habits of households when I have seen how much food and plastic are thrown away at the end of every single shift at every single restaurant and grocery store. Capitalist distribution & enforced scarcity are the main drivers of pollution & waste, not individual people making suboptimal decisions.

22 April at 16:59 | Open on kolektiva.social
Dan Goodin

@sidereal @chu @ianrosewrites

Yes, thanks for that. I'm going to use immense amounts of single-use plastic going forward and feel perfectly fine about it. Thanks for freeing me of the effects of this crippling propaganda.

22 April at 17:14 | Open on infosec.exchange
T Chu 朱

@dangoodin @sidereal @ianrosewrites

Hey, we're on the same team here.

We have a common enemy. Eat the fucking rich.

22 April at 17:15 | Open on climatejustice.social
WhiteCatTamer

@dangoodin @sidereal @chu @ianrosewrites The point isn’t to ramp up your own usage, it’s that the majority of the effort to reduce waste must be focused upon the corporations and governmental processes that produce the majority of that waste.

Taking away subsidies for meat and granting them to plant based meats, putting severe limits on plastic usage and breaking up monopolies cuts down significantly on individual use, too.

22 April at 18:17 | Open on mastodon.online
Dan Goodin

@WhiteCatTamer @sidereal @chu @ianrosewrites

Consumers support corporations by voting in pro-corporation politicians, eating at McDonalds, buying tons of plastic crap at Walmart, and having food delivered in cars and served in plastic containers. Here in the US, at least, governments are dysfunctional. They can't be counted on to even fund themselves. Waiting to take action only after the government cracks down on corporations is a recipe for failure. Individuals can and must feel the imperative to change their climate-destroying ways.

@WhiteCatTamer @sidereal @chu @ianrosewrites

Consumers support corporations by voting in pro-corporation politicians, eating at McDonalds, buying tons of plastic crap at Walmart, and having food delivered in cars and served in plastic containers. Here in the US, at least, governments are dysfunctional. They can't be counted on to even fund themselves. Waiting to take action only after the government cracks down on corporations is a recipe for failure. Individuals can and must feel the imperative...

22 April at 18:21 | Open on infosec.exchange
WhiteCatTamer

@dangoodin @sidereal @chu @ianrosewrites Yes, which is why the choice should be made easier by increasing access to sustainable and plastic free items both physically and financially, and at a time when economic inequality is through the roof and a dwindling number of corporations control markets, voting with your dollar is less and less possible for any given person.

22 April at 18:26 | Open on mastodon.online
Dan Goodin replied to WhiteCatTamer

@WhiteCatTamer @sidereal @chu @ianrosewrites

Corporations aren't going to provide plastic-free options when consumers are perfectly content shelling out huge sums for the status quo. Definitely, some people can't afford to make changes, but huge numbers of people can . . . and don't. And they justify their inaction by saying corporations must act instead. Again, in our current political environment, the government is completely ineffectual. That isn't likely to change anytime soon. Until it does, individuals face an imperative to pick up the slack.

@WhiteCatTamer @sidereal @chu @ianrosewrites

Corporations aren't going to provide plastic-free options when consumers are perfectly content shelling out huge sums for the status quo. Definitely, some people can't afford to make changes, but huge numbers of people can . . . and don't. And they justify their inaction by saying corporations must act instead. Again, in our current political environment, the government is completely ineffectual. That isn't likely to change anytime soon. Until it does,...

22 April at 18:33 | Open on infosec.exchange
WhiteCatTamer replied to Dan

@dangoodin @sidereal @chu @ianrosewrites Yeahhhh I think we’re going to disagree here. I do not stop the buck at the feet of the people with the least amount of power.

22 April at 18:38 | Open on mastodon.online
Dan Goodin replied to WhiteCatTamer

@WhiteCatTamer @sidereal @chu @ianrosewrites

What about all the people with means who say fuck it?

22 April at 18:40 | Open on infosec.exchange
T Chu 朱 replied to Dan

@dangoodin @WhiteCatTamer @sidereal @ianrosewrites

Fuck the a holes who still buy gas guzzlers and water bottles in 2024.

22 April at 18:43 | Open on climatejustice.social
Dan Goodin replied to T Chu 朱

@chu @WhiteCatTamer @sidereal @ianrosewrites

Careful, @chu People buying gas guzzling muscle cars and having door dash delivered to their work meetings have no other choice. After all, they have the least amount of power even though they're responsible for 2/3 of the economy. Far better to wait for a dysfunctional government to pass common sense legislation than expect these individuals to wake the hell up and make better consumer decisions. Thinking otherwise just means you've been brainwashed by the propagandists.

@chu @WhiteCatTamer @sidereal @ianrosewrites

Careful, @chu People buying gas guzzling muscle cars and having door dash delivered to their work meetings have no other choice. After all, they have the least amount of power even though they're responsible for 2/3 of the economy. Far better to wait for a dysfunctional government to pass common sense legislation than expect these individuals to wake the hell up and make better consumer decisions. Thinking otherwise just means you've been brainwashed by...

22 April at 19:35 | Open on infosec.exchange
Dan Goodin

@WhiteCatTamer @sidereal @chu @ianrosewrites

Yeah, but who are the people buying all the waste the corporations produce? I realize many of those people are poor and have no other choice. But what about everybody else? I know huge numbers of people who get doordash 3x a week even though they have the means to choose more sustainable options.

Given we can't count on politicians to reign in corporations anytime soon (at least here in the US) a far more effective lever for changing corporate behavior is for those of us with the means to stop supporting these corporations. But instead, so many of these people feel perfectly entitled to their consumption of plastic, energy and other climate harming stuff because . . . .corporations.

@WhiteCatTamer @sidereal @chu @ianrosewrites

Yeah, but who are the people buying all the waste the corporations produce? I realize many of those people are poor and have no other choice. But what about everybody else? I know huge numbers of people who get doordash 3x a week even though they have the means to choose more sustainable options.

22 April at 18:39 | Open on infosec.exchange
lizzzzard

@dangoodin @chu @ianrosewrites dudes. This is still a government regulation topic, not an individual once. If there's less plastic to buy, then people have less plastic in the trash.

Just look to Europe. Flaschenpfand. Public recycling facilities. Recycling quota for product producers. Obligation to take back packaging at point of sale. Trash tax. Paying for plastic bags. Limiting the amount of trash that gets taken away at trash day, etc. Lots of little nudges.

22 April at 20:05 | Open on social.tchncs.de
Dan Goodin

@lizzard @chu @ianrosewrites

So you really think that a country that's on the brink of electing a dictator is going to legislate its way out of a climate disaster?

22 April at 20:13 | Open on infosec.exchange
CJ Paloma ...again

@dangoodin @lizzard @chu @ianrosewrites yet a country "on the brink…" is gonna go vegetarian and stop drinking water from plastic bottles on their own?

Gov regs ARE a completely valid thing to target -and very much an uphill battle, as are targeting the obscenely wealthy, who, as noted elsewhere, spew literally tons of pollutants more than most people.

Doing everything you can to target the worst excesses first and hardest is basic triage- life threatening injuries should get most attention

22 April at 22:28 | Open on mas.to
Dan Goodin

@cjpaloma @lizzard @chu @ianrosewrites

Nice way to put words in my mouth I never said. Come back when you paraphrase me accurately and I'll read the rest of what you wrote.

22 April at 22:41 | Open on infosec.exchange
CJ Paloma ...again

@dangoodin @lizzard @chu @ianrosewrites

My message was more:

Keeping at governments to appropriately regulate corporate and military responsibility is an uphill battle and a completely valid thing to continue to do. So is targeting the HUGE excess users. So is getting ordinary people to wake up and reduce their footprints. In about that order.

basic triage says to prioritize the biggest bang for the buck, or you end up with nice stitches on a dead patient.

sorry if you took offense

22 April at 22:54 | Open on mas.to
lizzzzard

@dangoodin @chu @ianrosewrites no. I have low hopes for America in general. Sorry.

23 April at 4:54 | Open on social.tchncs.de
Alper

@dangoodin @chu @ianrosewrites and yet you won't be able to pollute as much as a single bomb all your life. OP's point is the scale requires a proportional response to the core issue/culprit. Not saying you do the right thing in your life.

22 April at 20:34 | Open on sfba.social
T Chu 朱

@alper @dangoodin @ianrosewrites

You're both right.

Billionaires are about 25% of global emissions.

The upper middle class of the US and Canada is more than half of the emissions. So while @dangoodin and I can't bike our way out of the climate crisis, collectively all our neighbors deciding they don't need a dick enhancer that gets 12 mpg can probably cut on the other 10% (not even back of the envelope math, in my head math based on transport being about 1/3 of total).

There's a lot of space for ALL actors to do something and not be douches.

We're all friends here batting on the same team. We have a common enemy of oil billionaires.

Let's not go after each other. There's space for both these major actors.

@alper @dangoodin @ianrosewrites

You're both right.

Billionaires are about 25% of global emissions.

The upper middle class of the US and Canada is more than half of the emissions. So while @dangoodin and I can't bike our way out of the climate crisis, collectively all our neighbors deciding they don't need a dick enhancer that gets 12 mpg can probably cut on the other 10% (not even back of the envelope math, in my head math based on transport being about 1/3 of total).

22 April at 20:48 | Open on climatejustice.social
Michael Bishop ☕

@dangoodin @chu @ianrosewrites

not necessarily. People seem to only focus on dietary aspects of animal ag when making calculations like this and fail to consider the multitudes of industries dependent upon animals. The leather industry alone requires the use of billions of animals each year to produce shoes and other products. Those animals would still be raised and slaughtered even if people cut out meat and dairy. Going vegan is the only way to make a real impact.
22 April at 22:47 | Open on mastodon.world
Crafty

@chu @dangoodin @ianrosewrites I think it's important to note that neither government nor corporations act in a vacuum though. We vote, either by political voting or with our money. Shein for example are terrible for encouraging overproduction and overconsumption of harmful fast fashion. But we can't really sit here and go "well look at those baddies" while purchasing their products, watching hauls on youtube, and sharing their products with friends. They exist only with our support.

22 April at 17:34 | Open on mastodon.social
Dan Goodin

@Craftycat @chu @ianrosewrites

Yes, exactly. Consumers are blameless here even though they're the ones buying all this plastic crap, supporting restaurants that use unsustainable practices and voting out any politician who supports legislation holding corporations accountable. They bare 0 responsibility for climate disaster.

22 April at 17:46 | Open on infosec.exchange
Bishop Whitewind

@dangoodin @ianrosewrites @chu I got hit by so many cars cycling around the city for work that my arms don't even point the same direction anymore. I live in an off-grid cabin in the middle of f****** woods trying to grow a permaculture Forest.
Didn't do s*** 😎
As long as the trillions of dollars in subsidies are headed to these monsters, there's absolutely nothing anyone else does that will ever matter, outside of stopping that and turning the machine on its head.
It's the dawn afterwards that such gentle people work towards just in case one ever comes.

@dangoodin @ianrosewrites @chu I got hit by so many cars cycling around the city for work that my arms don't even point the same direction anymore. I live in an off-grid cabin in the middle of f****** woods trying to grow a permaculture Forest.
Didn't do s*** 😎
As long as the trillions of dollars in subsidies are headed to these monsters, there's absolutely nothing anyone else does that will ever matter, outside of stopping that and turning the machine on its head.
It's the dawn afterwards that such...

22 April at 15:53 | Open on regenerate.social
Dan Goodin

@B_Whitewind @ianrosewrites @chu

"absolutely nothing anyone else can do that will ever matter" is a very dangerous and untrue self-fulfilling prophecy.

22 April at 16:12 | Open on infosec.exchange
Bishop Whitewind

@dangoodin @ianrosewrites @chu I mean you're welcome to get a bicycle, change careers and see if you can fight the good fight out there lads.
Either way, trillions of dollars and an entire society forced by threat of violence, to keep their heads down and pretend that the pyramid scheme built isn't upside down in every way possible, will not go anywhere until it's forced to.
I no longer have the exact numbers, but you should probably look into how many people crapping in a bucket in the woods somewhere it would take to counter out exactly one modern tank ;)

@dangoodin @ianrosewrites @chu I mean you're welcome to get a bicycle, change careers and see if you can fight the good fight out there lads.
Either way, trillions of dollars and an entire society forced by threat of violence, to keep their heads down and pretend that the pyramid scheme built isn't upside down in every way possible, will not go anywhere until it's forced to.
I no longer have the exact numbers, but you should probably look into how many people crapping in a bucket in the woods somewhere...

22 April at 16:17 | Open on regenerate.social
Dan Goodin

@B_Whitewind @ianrosewrites @chu

OK, in that case, I think I'll sell my bike, buy an SUV, ditch my canteen and drink out of plastic and feel fine about all of it. I'll be sure to tell my neighbors to do the same. Thanks for setting all of us straight. Happy earth day!

22 April at 16:52 | Open on infosec.exchange
Simon Johnson

@dangoodin @ianrosewrites @chu Of course all those individual behaviours are reprehensible and don’t help but I don’t believe for a minute that those people rationalise / justify their behaviour as “Corporations do worse”

They behave like that because waste & overconsumption are the principles underpinning the system we’re “blessed” to inhabit - extractive capitalism. Like all system conditions, to most people they are invisible so unquestioned

22 April at 15:57 | Open on mastodon.sdf.org
Dan Goodin

@Simon318ppm @ianrosewrites @chu

I think everyone in this thread agrees with each other more than we disagree. Cheers.

22 April at 16:03 | Open on infosec.exchange
Tölva Prophetess Of Numbers
John Socks

@dangoodin @ianrosewrites @chu I would frequently hike some hills right along Pacific Coast Highway (Crystal Cove for those who know it). I noticed that some would come down, get in their cars, start them up and run the air conditioner .. even when it was in the '70s. I'm thinking to myself, here you are, with an onshore breeze and the cleanest air you're ever going to breathe .. what are you even thinking?

I guess they're not thinking, just doing what they automatically do.

22 April at 20:16 | Open on socks.masto.host
T Chu 朱
Dan Goodin

@John @ianrosewrites @chu

A neighbor across the street was camped out in her running car for 45 minutes while talking on the phone. I finally approached her and asked if she might considering turning off her engine and she was outraged. She feels perfectly entitled to pump exhaust into my window. It's really maddening. Unfortunately, she and so many others like her, aren't likely to vote for common-sense climate legislation anytime soon.

22 April at 21:00 | Open on infosec.exchange
joel b

@dangoodin @John @ianrosewrites @chu There is a public park with a pair of baseball diamonds / soccer field very close to where I live. When they use the field for kids sport practice the entire parking lot is full of parents inside their idling cars either using their phones or watching the practice.

22 April at 21:09 | Open on social.tummyacid.net
John Socks

@dangoodin @ianrosewrites @chu yeah. I was a Prius driver* for a number of years. I was low-key about it, but I kind of tallied the reactions of friends, family, and strangers.

The vast majority of them thought that I was doing something odd, and I took that as the takeaway.

* - as well as a frequent pedestrian and bicyclist

22 April at 21:09 | Open on socks.masto.host
Mensch, Marina

@dangoodin But you missunderstood! Of course we all are responsible, too. But this individual responsibility is strategically used as a distraction & alibi by big corporations NOT to change their ways. @ianrosewrites @chu

23 April at 3:08 | Open on troet.cafe
Nils Jansen
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