Gregory's ServerEvery internet of shit, phone, tablet, and other sorts of device manufacturers should be required to push/post a root unlock firmware for their devices before they can stop supporting them. There's too goddamn much ewaste from everything already. If they're going to abandon their devices, at least make it easy for people to unlock them and do whatever else they want with them.
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   @JessTheUnstill more like forcing them to deposit unlock keys at state (or similar) actors and auto-releasing those keys after $time without update   @dalias @drazraeltod @JessTheUnstill Quite like how the good carriers give the PUK code with the sim card.
It's shitty, but I do get that some manufacturers sell the device itself at below cost because people have to pay for the online services. Game console manufacturers have done that for years. If they sold it easy to unlock, people would just buy the hardware, unlock it, and never pay for the service. Which is a shitty and scammy business model, but at least it does make sorta sense.  @JessTheUnstill @dalias and it much more politics-compatible that way you can sell it as "it's against cheap foreign vendors that don't supply updates" instead of "it's against you" well known vendors will always claim that THEIR lock in isn't as bad, because they do $bullshit. So they have a way of keeping that claim. @virtulis @JessTheUnstill @dalias @drazraeltod reminds me of how nuclear power plants are required to set aside funding for decommissioning the plant before they are allowed to build it. Obviously there are differences with the risk of software key leaks, but it’s a similar concept  @JessTheUnstill @dalias @drazraeltod that’s the line- but Nintendo apparently rarely sell at a loss and despite rampant, highly public piracy and the first gen Switch being pwned they are still gangbusters popular. I’m convinced the “sold at a loss” is a convenient mistruth, perpetrated to help justify high prices, locked-down consoles and mediocre services. None *cough steam deck* of which are needed *cough cough PC* to shift videogames 😫 @dalias @drazraeltod @JessTheUnstill oh and OFC #Apple does already include #Govware. Why else do you think they can still sell #iPhone|s and #iCloud in the "P.R." #China? @JessTheUnstill if you were going to set up a foundation to enact this policy, what would you call it? Would you walk the sign-ups and logos path or the legislative path? @quantumg @JessTheUnstill I too am a bitch on the Internet. 🤣 There's one called Human-I-T that was clearly named by someone's nerdy Dad, that is mostly focused on recycling computers, tablets and phones. Then there's Good Ol' Games and competitors that are all about keeping cultural artifacts available for future generations. Most IoT junk feels like it never should have been made in the first place.. but I love cheap crap. @JessTheUnstill big public database with repurposing cookbooks would be great. I bet there's 12 of them in varying states of decay. Put 'em all together and call it Amalgamated Abandonware. @JessTheUnstill @quantumg @VATVSLPR @JessTheUnstill reasonable 😆 If every tech product had to have a declared support schedule (written on the box, as it were) you could imagine service-oriented junk winning, but also consumers who will only buy zero-service products.  I very much like this idea of a law forcing manufacturers to provide unlock facilities for devices with built-in computing power upon end of support. 🤔 "Waiver of liability" is clearly needed. But that translates to "the unlock facilities don't work". This will be nontrivial to codify... @JessTheUnstill needs an escrow system so that we can get the info even if the company just dies; and also do a court could order its release in some circumstances @JessTheUnstill Unlocking bootloader of unsupported devices should be mandatory, yes. Actually, they should be required to release the sources at the time device goes out of support. Ewaste is bad :-(.
 @JessTheUnstill But then how will they make us buy their newer, slightly crappier gadgets?
@JessTheUnstill nodds in agreement Or they should be forced to not only take back the device and reimburse the full purchse price + interest but also pay the cost for a functional & technical drop-in replacement with equal or better terms and specs. THAT is something @EU_Commission should work on instead of copying #Cyberfacism from #Russia and #China...  @JessTheUnstill Unrooting is not enough. You need documentation and open-source firmwares when a device is abandoned by the manufacturer. Also you need to define "abandoned". I am sure device makers will never acknowledge the device is EOL. They will always find a good reason why a device will not receive update :)  @JessTheUnstill But then you Maybe don't need to buy their next generation device :ac_amazed: @JessTheUnstill I would love this especially for older consoles. I have a perfectly functioning ps3 that would make a great multimedia box if I could only put my own os on it @JessTheUnstill So true. At @edri we tried getting this idea into the EU's new #CyberResilienceAct, unfortunately without success. Political resistance against such forced exposure of #IP was too great because corporate #property apparently trumps everything, even digital #security 🙄 @JessTheUnstill@infosec.exchange @JessTheUnstill Of course, they won't WANT to do this because it means less NEW devices well be sold. They rely on the previous generation of electronics going to land fill to make a profit. Think of the poor execs and shareholders! #crapitalism @JessTheUnstill I appreciate how Google released a firmware for their Stadia controllers after shutting it down. Prior to the update, they could only be used with the service over internet protocols. The update made them standard Bluetooth controllers. I still use mine. @JessTheUnstill and escrow final source code and patches, drivers, hardware schematics, cad/cam designs for future spare part manufacturing. Stop offering support and spare parts available at a reasonable price, and it all needs to be public domain  @JessTheUnstill I wish! I would totally buy up 1st gen Alexa or whatever and root them. All I need them to do is run timers and tell me the weather anyways.   The Google infestation called Android is so out of control, I've not been able to get updates for months. About ready to nuke the phone and get a real Linux OS so I can use it again... @JessTheUnstill honest question: how do you do that without creating a security nightmare? I’m not a security expert but it seems like it would be just handing out blueprints for more exploits on newer devices built on the same stack. @alabut @JessTheUnstill ...oh the penny dropped for me now. So this is where going open source might also help close up loopholes? @alabut  @JessTheUnstill @linuxfiend I could totally get behind some regulation for that.   @JessTheUnstill and all consumer devices should be required to have a service manual available for download and for any device over x value purchase should include a printed copy @mensrea @JessTheUnstill And competently translated into the user's language by a native speaker, please. A function that's incomprehensibly explained can't be used in some cases, so effectively doesn't exist. @JessTheUnstill *stares silently at my beloved Blackberry Passport, which has sat in a drawer since 2019* yeeeeup. agree. 100% @ac1d_d4ddy https://twitter.com/internetofshit @JessTheUnstill you sent me down a rabbit hole I was not prepared for. Always knew IoT was shit but never knew people actually use these devices. smh my head @JessTheUnstill I get what you're saying but, of course, it misunderstands what the capitalist is doing when they make a device. What they are doing is obligating you to an ecosystem. Giving you freedom to manipulate that yourself (or even opt out of it) is totally contrary to their interests. They just want people forced to come to them. All capitalists do. @JessTheUnstill Or they should be obliged to support their devices as long as there is even a single damn user. Then they will voluntarily opt for a more open usage. I once bought a surveillance camera. It only ran through a cloud. The cloud got shut down, and the camera itself would still work perfectly fine... but now I have electronic waste. A waste of money and resources.  @JessTheUnstill @JessMahler And let us root the devices without losing data  @JessTheUnstill @JessTheUnstill Also: this thread reminds me so much of Cory Doctorow's story 'Unauthorised Bread'. @JessTheUnstill You’re missing the point. The planned obsolescence is meant to get you to buy a new one. They won’t make money if you continue to use the old phone.  @JessTheUnstill why is it even normal for phones and tablets to be jailed by default. it's a feckin' computer, let me do computer things with it as easily as on a desktop like are you saying I can't install a different OS on a phone I've paid [4-digit amount of $] for? that's some bullshit of the highest order @soop@wetdry.world  @JessTheUnstill the problem is that vendors will never officially stop supporting anything, which would be even worse of a scenario because people who don't know better will be sold old products that barely work because they're still officially supported @JessTheUnstill @Firlefanz NOw that'd be nice. It'd save us a whole hell of a lot of cash and keep E-waste down. @JessTheUnstill @gocu54 Try telling that to Apple. the mere suggestion would kill Tim Cook.  @JessTheUnstill for some of my devices that microsoft is hellbent on putting in a landfill, there is still Linux.  @JessTheUnstill  ngl, until I got to "...before they can stop supporting them", I thought this was the FBI/San Bernardino lawsuit stuff  @JessTheUnstill the malicious compliance companies would perform to not have to unlock anything would be both sad and infuriating @JessTheUnstill I want a list of hardware vendors to use and which to avoid. I started one a while ago: https://trello.com/b/BXxe1Rf5/device-vendors-and-software-freedom  @JessTheUnstill that's not good enough for me. All devices by law, that their tampering would not pose a direct risk to human life (e.g., medical devices and heavy machinery), ought to be jailbreakable, period.  @JessTheUnstill no manufacturer will ever pay for that because they wont profit from it. And it would be shitty. I would be happy with full development docs instead. |
@JessTheUnstill
Absolutely agree! I hate this